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EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

bbc.com

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Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#191

Post by morelisp »

dkirill wrote: post #150
romanovcode wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how sanctions usually work. The leaders of the country should be representing interests of the people. > This is only going to help Lukashenko's narrative that the West is plotting against Belarus. This narrative only works short-term. Sooner or later people realize it is not what is happening no matter how much propaganda is being produced.

Lukashenko already has much less than 50% support of the ppl and he has lost his last elections. But he holds the power by force. What do you want Belorussians to do, go and die fighting the police?

> What do you want Belorussians to do, go and die fighting the police?

I mean it sucks like hell, but this is how most countries (and most oppressed minority groups within most countries) did it. Do you think it would be better if the EU took the US approach and rolled in their own armies? That doesn't have a good record of working either.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#192

Post by tremon »

gpvos wrote: post #186
londons_explore wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country. Even if the person is in prison or debt, they can always leave with just themselves to another country willing to take them. If all nations agreed to that, we could stop worrying about most other human rights abuses, and country governance becomes more of a free market…

I'd love to see something like this as well, but it's not going to happen as long as so many people and/or their governments don't like large influxes of people.

as long as they have permission to enter another country

The GP's statement wasn't about influx, but egress.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#193

Post by dzhiurgis »

beyondcompute wrote: post #184

It feels like the ban hits ordinary citizens more. The rich and the powerful (including politicians) won’t be affected as much. :(

Irritate citizens enough and they will start revolting. Tho life there is bad enough that they ain't got time for that when your instinct calls for survival.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#194

Post by ratww »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #177
ratww wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, this is a good thing: common people can still use Lufthansa (although Lufthansa might stop having flights there) or Emirates. Elites, however, can't use private jets to fly to Europe anymore. Belavia also seems to belong to the state, so as long as we still have Lufthansa and Emirates, it's hurting the state more than hurting the general population.

And what stops elites from using Emirates? Or any other company, the name doesn't matter here.

What's your point? That Emirates should also stop flying there in order to inconvenience the elites? That would hurt the population way more than rich people, and EU has no such power.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#195

Post by piva00 »

rklaehn wrote: post #170
andrepd wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hungary is objectively an authoritarian regime because it removed separation of powers, stacked court with political appointees, closed down virtually all independent press, made state TV into a propaganda piece for Fidesz, etc. Not because it "disagrees with the EU".

I fail to see how this is different than other EU countries. E.g. the head of the German constitutional court has been a recent member of parliament for 12 years. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_Harbarth How is that not a political appointment? And I have not yet seen any state TV which is not sympathetic to the government bureaucracy. If you are being paid by the state, you are not going to be too critical of…

Are you seriously using whataboutism on Germany about Hungary's current situation?

Go get more informed, please, here are some resources:

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/01/hungarys-authoritarian-t...

[2] https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2020/0409/From-democr...

[3] https://djilp.org/hungarys-road-to-authoritarianism-through-...

[4] https://www.maastrichtuniversity.nl/news/ten-years-viktor-or...

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#196

Post by ddddq »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #179
ddddq wrote: post #162

As a european (german) I can say, that this is mostly just show. Why? For once, only Belarus Airline will be suspended to fly in the EU. The other european airlines will still fly to and over Belarus, giving them money. For example, Lufthansa still wants to fly to Belarus and doesn't seem to care at all about solidarity with other european airlines. Money talks louder. And then people who don't have the time to resea…

Turkey is still part of NATO. It would be a bit strange if NATO partners are supposed to defend one another but can't sell each other weapons :) Agree re. Saudi Arabia though. I'm surprised they still do that after Khasoggi.

I also agree that NATO members should sell and exchange knowledge. But Turkey is acting more and more hostile, also working against US interests and even against the interests of Greece, a important EU member state. That's why the US will open now new military bases in Greece.

I just wanted to show, that Germany tries to sell and make profits from both sites. And this will be a problem in the future, if parts of your economy are depending on, what someone would call, hostile states to western interests. It's already now a problem with the EU-Russia political conflict, where Germany is the main reason for the passivity of the EU regarding Russia and their aggressivity against eastern european nations. Also a reason why Poland trusts the USA way more on this topic than Germany or Western Europe.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#198

Post by shantara »

iso1631 wrote: post #77
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #7

I wasn't sure how big Belarusian airlines was, but their summer 2021 timetable shows a number of flights to Europe: https://en.belavia.by/webroot/delivery/files/TimeTable_en_s2... They appear to have 30 planes split between Boeing and Embraer: https://en.belavia.by/company/air_fleet/

A lot of planes fly Belarus - Egypt, which means flying through Greek/Cyprus airspace. Will be interesting if Ukraine and/or Turkey responds, as flights from Belarus to Istanbul would be effected too. Ukraine (and Turkey) are part of Eurocontrol, but not part of the EU. Obviously Belarus will still be flying east to Russia

Ukraine just announced they are stopping all air traffic with Belarus from tomorrow on.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#199

Post by yhhgbhtzcvvhbb »

ddddq wrote: post #162

As a european (german) I can say, that this is mostly just show. Why? For once, only Belarus Airline will be suspended to fly in the EU. The other european airlines will still fly to and over Belarus, giving them money. For example, Lufthansa still wants to fly to Belarus and doesn't seem to care at all about solidarity with other european airlines. Money talks louder. And then people who don't have the time to resea…

Germans beeing germans :)

I hate that Biden government allowed them to continue nord stream 2. This is 0 respect to eastern countries and feels like Ribbentrop-Molotov v2.

IMO all these recent events might be connected: covid-19, Suez cannal blockade, nord stream 2, Ukraine and Belarus.

It's feels like testing of new governments and part of global geopolitical negotiations (due to supply chain and energy changes). Maybe it's a little too much tinfoily, time will tell.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#200

Post by mam3 »

StavrosK wrote: post #30
mam3 wrote: post #20

Why is there no one talking about some sort of military response like literally building a base at the bielorussian border with fighter planes that would prevent such equally military actions like that.

Spend billions building a base to do what? Invade Belarussian airspace (an act of war) to guard the passenger plane if this incident happens again?

Bilions no, but other wise yes. The case could largely be made that intercepting a flight departing feom and landing in other countries is some sort of invasion too.
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