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EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

bbc.com

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Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#171

Post by ratww »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #136
capableweb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's up to who is interpreting the conclusion ( https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... ) It says: > calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines; Now I don't know how private jets usually works, but isn't there some company responsible for the flight…

So in the worst case they’ll use Lufthansa or Emirates? Okay.

If that's the case, this is a good thing: common people can still use Lufthansa (although Lufthansa might stop having flights there) or Emirates.

Elites, however, can't use private jets to fly to Europe anymore.

Belavia also seems to belong to the state, so as long as we still have Lufthansa and Emirates, it's hurting the state more than hurting the general population.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#172

Post by mjfisher »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #160
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021 ... The decision is taken. You are misunderstanding what you are reading. The press release follows an urgent meeting from the Council. The Council is the reunion of all the EU heads of state. They have already agreed to the ban. The sentence you are quoting just means that they now h…

> That's how the EU works. It's the case for every decision taken and law passed by the EU. Not exactly. It depends on the area of law one is in. For some areas of law the EU itself can create law in itself which immediately becomes law in the member states, overriding member state's laws (typically via EU Regulation) But this works only in areas where EU contracts give those powers to EU. Of course this then still d…

That's true - it's also worth explicitly noting that when the EU does make law directly, that is still done in a fully democratic way.

The fact that that EU laws can override national laws does not mean that the EU Commission has unilaterally imposed law without consent. Law changes must first must be approved by the Council - comprising heads of state - and then by the EU parliament, consisting of directly elected representatives from all member states.

I know you weren't asserting otherwise - I just wanted to provide additional important context for those who wouldn't otherwise be aware.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#173

Post by FinanceAnon »

nathell wrote: post #138
nomercy400 wrote: post #91

I am surprised Hungary agreed. And Poland. The governments in those nations are not shy to touch on the freedoms of their population, and often disagree with the EU when the EU points these things out. Also Poland being directly next to Belarus will affect their relations.

Poland is directly affected, as the FR4978 with Pratasievič on board was a SP-RSM belonging to Ryanair Sun and registered in Poland.

Yes, and Pratasievič was granted political asylum in Poland.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#174

Post by scoopertrooper »

k1m wrote: post #103

Glenn Greenwald's latest piece on this: > What Belarus did, while illegal, is not unprecedented. The dangerous tactic was pioneered by the same U.S. and E.U. officials now righteously condemning it. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...

Glenn Greenwald has just gone a bit funny these days. When he's not repeating propaganda straight out of RT (like this), he's minimising the crimes committed on 6 January.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-the-insurrection-narrati...

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-c...

https://www.rt.com/russia/524731-belarus-ryanair-similar-inc...

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#175

Post by ratww »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #87

Wonder what the geo-political consequences could be. What if Big Brother Putin now says all EU planes are banned from flying over Russia. Or what if Russian ATC are ordered to route planes flying from the east to Belarussian airspace. Of course there's probably a bit of freedom to choose routes by pilots, but if I were Putin I'd just say (or tell my ATC to say): "those routes are closed because of military training,…

Putin has lots of issues, but he's way more pragmatic than that.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#176

Post by mopsi »

pydry wrote: post #143
mopsi wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The desired effect is to increase pressure on Lukashenko and I'm sure every holidaymaker with a ruined trip knows very well whose stupid stunt is to blame for it.

Holidaymakers who were unlikely to be Lukashenko supporters in the first place and who now can't come home and tell people how great the West is. I don't think he's losing out that badly here. Indeed, increased isolation from the West may have been a goal from the outset. Having the West do it for him is even better.

> Holidaymakers who were unlikely to be Lukashenko supporters in the first place and who now can't come home and tell people how great the West is.

Now even his supporters have to make every foreign flight through Moscow as a constant reminder of what great relations the potato czar has with rest of the world. Dictatorship are very sensitive to image issues (see Winnie the Pooh).

On the practical side, it starves Belarus of overflying fees. The stunt will cost them hundreds of millions, and hopfully further targeted sanctions will make whatever's left (and funneled into their private accounts by the regime) more difficult to spend.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#177

Post by EugeneOZ »

ratww wrote: post #171
EugeneOZ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the worst case they’ll use Lufthansa or Emirates? Okay.

If that's the case, this is a good thing: common people can still use Lufthansa (although Lufthansa might stop having flights there) or Emirates. Elites, however, can't use private jets to fly to Europe anymore. Belavia also seems to belong to the state, so as long as we still have Lufthansa and Emirates, it's hurting the state more than hurting the general population.

And what stops elites from using Emirates? Or any other company, the name doesn't matter here.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#178

Post by FinanceAnon »

nomercy400 wrote: post #91

I am surprised Hungary agreed. And Poland. The governments in those nations are not shy to touch on the freedoms of their population, and often disagree with the EU when the EU points these things out. Also Poland being directly next to Belarus will affect their relations.

Just because a country has an authoritarian government, doesn't mean it supports other authoritarian governments.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#179

Post by GekkePrutser »

ddddq wrote: post #162

As a european (german) I can say, that this is mostly just show. Why? For once, only Belarus Airline will be suspended to fly in the EU. The other european airlines will still fly to and over Belarus, giving them money. For example, Lufthansa still wants to fly to Belarus and doesn't seem to care at all about solidarity with other european airlines. Money talks louder. And then people who don't have the time to resea…

Turkey is still part of NATO. It would be a bit strange if NATO partners are supposed to defend one another but can't sell each other weapons :) Agree re. Saudi Arabia though. I'm surprised they still do that after Khasoggi.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#180

Post by halfdan »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #133
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021 ... The decision is taken. You are misunderstanding what you are reading. The press release follows an urgent meeting from the Council. The Council is the reunion of all the EU heads of state. They have already agreed to the ban. The sentence you are quoting just means that they now h…

Dear WastingMyTime89 (<-- not at all!): Excellent post. Thank you to clarify these important details! I wonder if but other (non-EU) European states will follow suit, such as United Kingdom, Norway, Switzerland, etc.

Switzerland is interesting. There's no way for a plane to get to it without crossing EU airspace.. I wonder how that plays out.
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