Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 422 posts

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#121

Post by intricatedetail »

visarga wrote: post #76
ceilingcorner wrote: post #73

Unfortunately, the real losers of this situation will be the Belarusian people, many of whom have immigrated to nearby countries like Poland or Germany. They will now (probably) be unable to visit family members easily, as flights will have to reroute through Istanbul or Russia. Pretty much the same situation with Iran. Actions intended to punish an unjust government mostly just hurt their citizens.

It's group guilt and punishment, a dehumanizing practice that ignores personal circumstances and is OK with collateral damage. A blunt tool.

Such tyranny exist because people allow it. Do you think nations should not bear responsibility for _their_ governments?

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#122

Post by [deleted] »

varispeed wrote: post #35

All bark no bite. Assuming they got help from Russia, the gas pipeline (Nord Stream 2) is still going as planned. Germany must be sweating right now, how to look like as if they are actually committed to any sanctions, but in reality to not compromise their little joint project with Russia.

[deleted]

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#123

Post by ceilingcorner »

intricatedetail wrote: post #113
ceilingcorner wrote: post #73

Unfortunately, the real losers of this situation will be the Belarusian people, many of whom have immigrated to nearby countries like Poland or Germany. They will now (probably) be unable to visit family members easily, as flights will have to reroute through Istanbul or Russia. Pretty much the same situation with Iran. Actions intended to punish an unjust government mostly just hurt their citizens.

How people are going to take responsibility if they are not going to feel consequences? Are they ever going to sort out their mess?

"Until you start a violent civil war to overthrow your government, we're going to make you, average citizen of Belarus, have a more difficult life."

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#124

Post by capableweb »

threwaway4392 wrote: post #110

Sanctions appear tough but will isolate the Belarusian people even more. The EU could up their game by recognizing the democratically elected Belarusian individuals as the rightful government in exile, and propose to kick-start EU integration talks with them. That would send a strong support message to the Belarusian people.

> Sanctions appear tough but will isolate the Belarusian people even more.

Dictators only caring about themselves and isolating their own people even more than before? Color me surprised.

> The EU could up their game by recognizing the democratically elected Belarusian individuals as the rightful government in exile

Unlikely to happen, the EU has a strong history of not getting involved in the democratic process no matter how ugly it gets. Look at the "reaction" (or rather lack of reaction) from various referendums in EU countries and also abroad, and you'll see their default stance when it comes to "helping spread democracy".

I think they carefully try to avoid ending up in the same position of the US, who has meddled in so many elections worldwide that it's hard to even keep track of them anymore.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#125

Post by azernik »

stanpinte wrote: post #55
ChemSpider wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all practical matters that is the same. Of course member states have to implement it. The EU is (still?) not one country. What counts is that the leaders of all EU countries agreed to it. So it will happen.

Let's see how it evolves: I think every country shall make its cost-benefit analysis, and the ones with nothing or very little to lose shall ban. I would bet on medium compliance.

Decisions like this by the Council are legally binding on member states. Similar to how GDPR is technically implemented by each state's relevant government agency.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#127

Post by yoavm »

oblio wrote: post #119
capableweb wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine air traffic over Belarus can be avoided with minimal financial losses and Belarus itself only generates a small amount of traffic The ban is for Belarusian airlines over EU members countries. The one who is being targeted to be "financially hurt" is not the EU countries themselves but the Belarusian airlines. I'm sure they'll feel the impact very soon, as they'll basically need to cancel every flight unle…

It's probably going to be both ways, though. I can't imagine Belarus not retaliating (though the EU has already decided to avoid their airspace, anyway).

For an airline, it's much easier to fly around Belarus and not land in Belarus, than to fly around the EU and not land in the EU.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#128

Post by dkirill »

xamolxix wrote: post #54
therusskiy wrote: post #43

EU gets to appear "tough" while, unfortunately, this is only going to hurt people of Belarus. This is only going to help Lukashenko's narrative that the West is plotting against Belarus.

What would the alternative be? Do nothing?

Sanction the elite

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#129

Post by capableweb »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #105

Whom they are punishing? Elites use private jets and will just laugh at that. Regular Belarusians will have difficulties, yes.

I guess that's up to who is interpreting the conclusion (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021...)

It says:

> calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines;

Now I don't know how private jets usually works, but isn't there some company responsible for the flight itself? Every plane in existence needs to file a flight plan, and I presume that if the flights origin is from Belarus and owned by a Belarus entity, they'll get denied to enter the other airways west/north to Belarus.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#130

Post by capableweb »

allendoerfer wrote: post #36
kofejnik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> At a meeting in Brussels, the leaders of the 27 member states also told EU airlines not to fly over Belarus, and promised further economic sanctions.

They told them to, but airlines are free to do whatever they want.

Sure, but since the EU nor the companies within is trying to emulate the Great Land of Freedom, companies won't fly there if most of the EU leaders just agreed that they shouldn't. The risk of going against recommended action and getting penalties themselves is much higher than any potential benefits of continue doing it.
Post reply on HN