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Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

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Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#11

Post by michaelt »

bipson wrote: post #8
sgt101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am no MD - but I am curious, perhaps someone who has a clue can comment on what I am going to say. I believe that Liver Cirrhosis is caused by scaring due to fat being retained in the liver. I understand that fat is retained when the liver is metabolizing alcohol, and that if this is a short term thing then the liver can expel the fat and no scaring occurs. But if you persistently force your liver to metabolize alc…

Not an MD, but in my experience this seems a question that MDs don't like to answer - for good reason. (I.e. if I understood your question correctly) There is so much individuality involved (genetics, history, liver health in general), and so much "it depends" (amount of alcohol, size of liver, food intake, ...) that you cannot possibly stick a definitive number to that question. Also, the question seems dangerous: W…

> What are you going to do with an answer? Drink to a certain limit, in good conscience?

I'm doing that already.

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#12

Post by bipson »

michaelt wrote: post #11
bipson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an MD, but in my experience this seems a question that MDs don't like to answer - for good reason. (I.e. if I understood your question correctly) There is so much individuality involved (genetics, history, liver health in general), and so much "it depends" (amount of alcohol, size of liver, food intake, ...) that you cannot possibly stick a definitive number to that question. Also, the question seems dangerous: W…

> What are you going to do with an answer? Drink to a certain limit, in good conscience? I'm doing that already.

EDIT: I realized that I am maybe a little sensitive, and the question could be read the other way round, giving the liver enough time to recover between two occasional (small) intakes. That is actually an interesting question.

Leaving original answer (but please don't be triggered by me failing to read the question correctly):

And you're free to do so.

But don't expect an absolution from a health professional, in the form of a number that is "always entirely safe, under all circumstances".

Alcohol is essentially a poison for the body, which he can tolerate quite well in respectable amounts, compared to other toxins (we can actually "buffer" a certain amount AFAIK).

But talking about lesions in liver tissue growing back without scarring or long-lasting consequences is really out of the safe zone if you ask me. So your questions is clearly rubbing me the wrong way.

Also, sometimes your liver can be weakened or inflamed (without you realizing), and then obviously every drop counts.

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#13

Post by bencollier49 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #5

That "Five Bottle Man" quote from the Morning Chronicle might be tongue-in-cheek but I'm pretty sure it's about "Cinque Ports Volunteers", not "Cinq Port Volunteers", which doesn't refer to the drink but rather the Cinque Ports, a group of coastal towns in Kent.

Interestingly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Cinque_Ports_Artillery_Vol...

I strongly suspect that there might be a shared running gag going on here. "Oh, Lord Brasenose? He left the cavalry and now he's enlisted with the Cinque Ports Volunteers."

A bit like the nineteenth hole on a golf course.

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#14

Post by elktea »

sgt101 wrote: post #6
Kosirich wrote: post #2

I found out recently from my dad that one of his business associates/friend is on the list for a liver transplant due to liver cirrhosis. When my dad found out he couldn't believe that a person for who he swears never drank more than 2 glasses of wine at a dinner, was apparently high functioning alcoholic. The man in question seems to have fooled a lot of people and he certainly was high functioning as he managed to…

I am no MD - but I am curious, perhaps someone who has a clue can comment on what I am going to say. I believe that Liver Cirrhosis is caused by scaring due to fat being retained in the liver. I understand that fat is retained when the liver is metabolizing alcohol, and that if this is a short term thing then the liver can expel the fat and no scaring occurs. But if you persistently force your liver to metabolize alc…

It's been shown (in rats) that saturated fats are protective against cirrhosis and unsaturated fats (linoleic acid in this case) are required for liver injury.

Might explain why some people can drink like fish and have perfectly healthy livers while others suffer badly.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2915600/

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#15

Post by twic »

BjoernKW wrote: post #5

That "Five Bottle Man" quote from the Morning Chronicle might be tongue-in-cheek but I'm pretty sure it's about "Cinque Ports Volunteers", not "Cinq Port Volunteers", which doesn't refer to the drink but rather the Cinque Ports, a group of coastal towns in Kent.

I assumed this was a pun, port being a wine as well as Dover etc, but it seems Pitt actually was Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, and actively involved in raising volunteers, at the time that newspaper article was written:

http://www.geocities.ws/cinqueportsvolunteers/HISTORY.htm#Th...

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#16

Post by op00to »

nicoburns wrote: post #9
sgt101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am no MD - but I am curious, perhaps someone who has a clue can comment on what I am going to say. I believe that Liver Cirrhosis is caused by scaring due to fat being retained in the liver. I understand that fat is retained when the liver is metabolizing alcohol, and that if this is a short term thing then the liver can expel the fat and no scaring occurs. But if you persistently force your liver to metabolize alc…

Not a medical professional either, but I once heard that keeping 2 consecutive days out of every week alcohol free as sufficient for preventing liver cirrhosis.

This makes little sense. I can drink 6 bottles a day, but as long as I respect the lord on the weekend my liver’ll be ok?

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#17

Post by sgt101 »

bipson wrote: post #12
michaelt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are you going to do with an answer? Drink to a certain limit, in good conscience? I'm doing that already.

EDIT: I realized that I am maybe a little sensitive, and the question could be read the other way round, giving the liver enough time to recover between two occasional (small) intakes. That is actually an interesting question. Leaving original answer (but please don't be triggered by me failing to read the question correctly): And you're free to do so. But don't expect an absolution from a health professional, in the…

Thank you for trying to answer in good faith!

I will say that early in my life I saw some extremely healthy and clean living friends killed by events and disease and I learned that we all only have a short time to live, despite the promises and absolutions we might get from doctors or priests. However, there is a difference between taking some risks and risking your life - and I guess that exploiting drugs, and sex, and rock and roll for pleasure can be in either category.

There isn't a safe zone - even complete abstinence isn't safe....

It's interesting to think what change in attitude and advice the existance of a "safe zone" would create - if medicine could really save us (allow us to live reliably much longer), if only we didn't do silly things. I sometimes think that a lot of folks operate as if that were true now, and get shocked when it turns out that it isn't. There are so many stories that start with "he used to run three times a week, never smoked and then..."

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#18

Post by valyagolev »

There was a fascinating passage from a book I saw somewhere, that described the extreme and universal consumption of alcohol as the early way to adapt to a big city life - before other ways of dealing with people around were invented. It was tough to be surrounded by so many people, and apparently we picked up just enough customs, rituals, and technique of organizing space to think we can deal with it. Unfortunately I don't think I'll ever be find that book again

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#19

Post by sgt101 »

op00to wrote: post #16
nicoburns wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a medical professional either, but I once heard that keeping 2 consecutive days out of every week alcohol free as sufficient for preventing liver cirrhosis.

This makes little sense. I can drink 6 bottles a day, but as long as I respect the lord on the weekend my liver’ll be ok?

I think that there is another factor - extreme abuse!

It seems pretty obvious from even a casual acquaintance with alcohol that consuming 10 units in a sitting (one or maybe two bottles by the OP's rating depending on the Georgian sizing and strengths) is extremely bad for you. Anything that steals your sleep and leaves you feeling sick with a headache is kinda self evidently bad - right?

Re: Drunk as a Lord: the Regency Bottle Men

#20

Post by BjoernKW »

bencollier49 wrote: post #13
BjoernKW wrote: post #5

That "Five Bottle Man" quote from the Morning Chronicle might be tongue-in-cheek but I'm pretty sure it's about "Cinque Ports Volunteers", not "Cinq Port Volunteers", which doesn't refer to the drink but rather the Cinque Ports, a group of coastal towns in Kent.

Interestingly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Cinque_Ports_Artillery_Vol... I strongly suspect that there might be a shared running gag going on here. "Oh, Lord Brasenose? He left the cavalry and now he's enlisted with the Cinque Ports Volunteers." A bit like the nineteenth hole on a golf course.

Nowadays, you'd be correct. The term "Cinque Ports" itself is mostly used in historical or ceremonial contexts these days.

During Pitt's time, however, if a French invasion of Britain had taken place it would likely have been in that particular region.

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