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I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

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Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#281

Post by psychomugs »

sneak wrote: post #253
psychomugs wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know my photographic rights; I was in public on public property photographing someone else on public property, which is legal in the US [1]. The only illegal happening here was theft on the part of the thief. I realize that you’re probably not based here if you think otherwise. I’m a photographer and a distance runner and I’m good enough at both to have made money off of them. Both reactions were instinctive. [1] h…

> grabbed him by his hoodie collar, and pinned him down I was referring to the battery. > I’m a photographer and a distance runner and I’m good enough at both to have made money off of them. Both reactions were instinctive. The experiences and training you have had post-birth have no bearing on your innate human instinctual responses, which are shared in common with all members of your species, including the ones tha…

Citizen’s arrest is not illegal in CA: https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/837/ Considering the guy was almost a foot taller than me, I was pinning him down with only a fraction of his body weight.

My usage of instinct, something that I did subconsciously and without thinking, is covered under several dictionary definitions and examples [1-3].

[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insti... [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/instinct [3] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/instinct

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#282

Post by Apocryphon »

smsm42 wrote: post #22
LeoPanthera wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsensical. San Francisco's crime problem doesn't extend to the peninsula.

It mostly does not. San Jose still has deep trouble with homeless camps, that is getting worse (and more widespread) year by year, so I imagine crime will get worse - thought not as bad as in SF, most Valley municipalities aren't as insane as the shining beacon of insanity in San Francisco, neither their inhabitants would likely tolerate these levels of craziness for long.

Property crime is at least getting common enough in the South Bay to warrant parking lots posting signs warning people to stow their luggage in their trunks. Seems like car break-in culture has spread beyond S.F.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#283

Post by bzbarsky »

asdff wrote: post #222
axbytg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> see it turn into a 3rd world country in a matter of years This is just a wild thing to claim.

How is it not? You have ultra rich living above and driving around people living in tarps on the street just like what you see in corrupted "third world" places around the world. It is so demoralizing living near a homeless encampment and seeing how people live every day for years, and seeing nothing done to improve their situation. No other first world country I know is like that. First world countries have governme…

Last time I was in France (Lyon, a few years ago), there was quite a number of homeless people camping out in the parks. Is France also a third-world country?

I agree that the homeless situation is bad. I don't think blanket claims that other "first world" countries handle it much better are necessarily true, unfortunately.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#284

Post by jwilber »

chrischen wrote: post #48
jwilber wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think that hits the nail on the head. The nimby problem, on the other hand, shows how selfish intentions can also lead to very harmful effects. Spent 5 years there and am not envious of anyone living in the Bay at all.

I actually think NIMBYism isn't a San Francisco specific problem. It was just brought to the forefront because many people decided to move there all of a sudden. But the reality is most popular places have people choosing to protect their property values.

This rings true, although it’s hard to think of cities where the issue has resulted in as much harm as in SF.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#285

Post by dude187 »

kstenerud wrote: post #130
olivermarks wrote: post #30

SF District Attorney Chesa Boudin ran for office in November 2019 focusing his campaign on ending mass incarceration with restorative justice models, rather than punitive incarceral methods. Since then crime in SF has absolutely exploded, fuelled by proposition 47 which reduced stealing less than $900 day to a misdemeanor. Add in a massive opioid crisis and the result is a rapidly growing crisis of shoplifting, petty…

And the interesting thing is, the laws are even still more draconian than in Western European countries, booking processes more traumatic, prison terms longer, prison conditions an order of magnitude worse, and supervised release much more onerous. And yet Western Europe doesn't suffer anything even close to San Francisco's crime levels.

> the laws are even still more draconian than in Western European countries

Theft is effectively legal in SF. Is it in those places?

> booking processes more traumatic

Subjective nonsense.

> prison terms longer, prison conditions an order of magnitude worse, and supervised release much more onerous.

In SF, theft does not receive "prison terms".

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#286

Post by mardifoufs »

bosswipe wrote: post #256
mardifoufs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, why would police arrest people that won't get prosecuted as a matter of fact. It's effectively not a crime if the AG officially states that he won't prosecute an entire category of crimes. But even if just arrests (followed by immediate release) alone were enough of a disincentive for petty criminals, it would be the police arresting people for the sake of arresting people, for what is effectively no…

Police should do their job because we pay them to do it. If they're involved in some kind of work slow down because they don't agree with the prosecutors policies then they're playing a dangerous game with public safety and they should be fired.

My point is that it isn't their job to create laws or decide what is or isn't legal. This is like saying prosecutors should just do their job, and get bad people into prison no matter what pesky judges decide. It's not a slowdown or a conflict, it's the prosecution saying those crimes are defacto legal now. It's very dishonest to pretend it's just "work slowdown".

And btw I probably... Dislike the police more than most, a lot more even. But I also don't like prosecutors. I also think that you have to live with the consequences of whatever policy you want. So you can't basically vote for situations like these to be "legalized" to then scapegoat the police. It's fine to think some property crimes shouldn't be punished, but you have to accept that it leads to stuff like this. Now if that's a good trade-off for SF residents then I honestly don't see the problem.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#287

Post by vehementi »

dcow wrote: post #268
aronowb14 wrote: post #73

Is anybody else getting tired of the constant stream of inflammatory posts ragging on San Francisco or the Bay Area? I feel like I've been seeing one every one or two days that make it to the top of HN. These types of posts just seem to fit into this ongoing narrative that SF (and relatedly, silicon valley), are all falling apart due to poor governance. It's beginning to feel like a strong echo chamber in here. What…

SF is objectively poorly managed. It's not just anecdotal. Follow the money and see where it leads... Personally I see the posts as a strong dose of red-pill happening here on NH as people wake up from their starry-eyed honeymoon with the city by the bay. From what I've seen, it's not just people saying "I visited and it sucked". It's people also saying "I lived there for 10+ years and it really has gone downhill". P…

> they're also not unsolved problems in other areas

There aren't a lot of areas like SF - nice weather cities with support in place. In such areas, this is not a solved problem (Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, SF, ...). Basically everything in this entire thread can be said for Seattle or Vancouver just with reduced scale.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#288

Post by ALittleLight »

dragonwriter wrote: post #275
ALittleLight wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens in California are allowed to make a citizen's arrest including use of reasonable force. 1 - https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/837/#3.1

> Citizens in California are allowed to make a citizen's arrest including use of reasonable force. For a misdemeanor (as the shoplifting described in this case appears to be), only if the arrested party actually committed the offense and it occurred in the arresting party’s presence (for a felony , the terms are somewhat looser.) As the description clearly indicates that the offense did not occur in the poster’s pres…

What do the courts mean by "in the presence?" Although they have not had occasion to elaborate much, they have said that the crime must have been "apparent to the senses," but that this requirement should be interpreted "liberally." Thus, it will be satisfied if the citizen was aware of circumstances from which he could reasonably infer that a crime was occurring in his presence

- https://le.alcoda.org/publications/files/CITIZENSARREST.pdf

I think this would qualify as committing the crime "in the presence" of the above commenter. Running away is part of the theft and that was done in the presence of the commenter.

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#289

Post by raverbashing »

bzbarsky wrote: post #283
asdff wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not? You have ultra rich living above and driving around people living in tarps on the street just like what you see in corrupted "third world" places around the world. It is so demoralizing living near a homeless encampment and seeing how people live every day for years, and seeing nothing done to improve their situation. No other first world country I know is like that. First world countries have governme…

Last time I was in France (Lyon, a few years ago), there was quite a number of homeless people camping out in the parks. Is France also a third-world country? I agree that the homeless situation is bad. I don't think blanket claims that other "first world" countries handle it much better are necessarily true, unfortunately.

One (or a couple of) cities don't represent the whole country, naturally.

These were probably either recent migrants ("refugees" for lack of a better term) or Roma camps (which are not today's problem). They could as well just be homeless, sure (depends on the park, location, etc). Mostly, they are the result of progressive policies gone unchecked as well.

But are these in the same quantity/concentration and causing as much trouble and being as aggressive as the ones in SF?

Re: I Was Robbed in San Francisco While the Cameras Rolled

#290

Post by babesh »

Apocryphon wrote: post #248
babesh wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born and raised in SF as well. SF is beginning to look and feel like late 80’s/early 90’s SF. Increase in hate crimes against Asians. Car break-ins. Burglaries. Fewer people on the streets. I think part of what is happening is that criminals refocused on residents because there aren’t tourists around to prey on anymore. Chesa Boudin made it worse. No more bail so people accused of crime are free to sometimes co…

Well, the pandemic and economic depression have certainly exacerbated things. I also doubt that tourism in most places in California will really resemble pre-quarantine times until at least June 15th.

Yes. The economic downturn definitely was another major cause. There was increased crime even in the suburbs. However, that crime was mostly car break-ins, catalytic converter thefts, garage break-ins, package thefts. Violent crime doesn’t seem to have increased much unlike in SF and apparently other big cities.
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