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The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

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Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#61

Post by redthrowaway »

Zak wrote: post #33
masklinn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its the very reason I never got an iphone, opting for blackberry instead. That makes no sense. The iPhone does not have any capacitive button. It has 3 (or 4 depending on the way you count the volume rocker) physical buttons and a capacitive touch screen . And no, it's not the same.

When the touch screen is used as a replacement for physical buttons - to answer or ignore a call, for example then using the screen is roughly equivalent to having a capacitive button for the same function.

Except the iPhone was damned clever in that regard. It has a proximity sensor next to the earpiece that would shut off the display. So, as soon as you go to answer a call, the phone detects your ear and shuts off the display so you don't accidentally do something stupid with your cheek.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#62

Post by jrockway »

jasonkester wrote: post #44

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? Of course, said buttons are always next to impossible to press correctly (except by accident), so the standard use case is to mash your finger onto it until some form of feedback occurs. More often than not, that feedb…

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button?

That's not an induction stove. An induction stove uses electromagnetism to heat a ferromagnetic cooking device positioned above a coil. The stove surface only becomes hot due to conduction away from the pot or pan. If you put nothing above the induction coil, nothing gets hot.

Here's a picture from Wikipedia. It's boiling water through a newspaper positioned between the induction coil and pot, with no damage to the newspaper: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Induction_Cook...

The kind of stove you're thinking of is a glass-ceramic resistive cooktop. It's just a piece of glass that sits between a big old resistor and your food. (Annoying about how easy it is to burn yourself, but very easy to clean!)

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#63

Post by joshu »

jasonkester wrote: post #44

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? Of course, said buttons are always next to impossible to press correctly (except by accident), so the standard use case is to mash your finger onto it until some form of feedback occurs. More often than not, that feedb…

I thought induction stoves caused metal pots to get hot via induction. They don't get hot on their own.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#64

Post by ams6110 »

jasonkester wrote: post #44

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? Of course, said buttons are always next to impossible to press correctly (except by accident), so the standard use case is to mash your finger onto it until some form of feedback occurs. More often than not, that feedb…

Small nit, most of the smooth cooktop stoves are not induction stoves, they are still heating the cookware by radiant or direct physical contact transfer of heat.

True induction cooktops require use of iron or steel cookware which is directly heated with an electromagnetic field, not a transfer of heat from a heating element.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#65

Post by walexander »

ddagradi wrote: post #10
ed209 wrote: post #7

isn't the entire screen of a smart phone a capacitive button? It's pretty hard to accidentally dial my ex or launch the "fart noise" app in a meeting on it so why not link the "capacitive" buttons to the same software unlock as the device already has. (referring to my Android / HTC desire)

In Honeycomb (and presumably 4.0), the capacitive buttons have been replaced with on screen elements, so sort-of yes. The difference, in my opinion, is that there is on-screen feedback when you press a screen button, vs a capacitive button which is just a backlit touch element. I agree with your solution to link their active state to the software unlock, but in practice it seems to not be how devices have been implem…

I believe I've personally had more issues with misclicks on the honeycomb buttons as there is not as much of a clearly defined delineation between screen and softkeys as with the screen and capacitive buttons on my smartphone.

I supposed this depends on the design/location of the capacitive buttons, but speaking for myself, I haven't really had the issues you mention in your post.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#66

Post by Tharkun »

Anything that vaguely pretends it's a button without being one deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. This includes touch screens, capacitive or otherwise, and any other such nonsense. If I'm meant to press it, make it obvious and use a button. If I'm meant to slide it, give me a slider. Turn? Give me a knob. How hard can it be, seriously?

As for engineers moaning about the life time of switches, puh-please. Show me one phone with buttons that has outlived its buttons. You can't? Didn't think so.

What really needs to go is this touchy cult. It's ridiculous. There are a couple of things where it makes sense. Angry Birds is not one of them. Anything else is just a useless fad. Especially touchy keyboardy crap that NO ONE can type on. Show me one person who can type 150WPM (and I don't mean swipe or predict or any such crap) on a touch screen and I'll go out and buy an iPhone.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#67

Post by bane »

ryanklee wrote: post #50
bane wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always just carry around a bit of hot dog in your pocket. I've actually seen this in Korea in the winter for operating capacitive screens and buttons on mobile devices.

It's not a hot dog, actually more like a kind of cheese, and by "kind of" I mean just about the most disgusting artificial cheese you can imagine. Very popular over there and sold at every corner store near the register in the impulse-buy section.

I was wondering if it was one of those little cheeses (in the yellow wrappers) or a small fish sausage.

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00nTEtNeUzVaqh/Fish-Sausa...

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#68

Post by georgieporgie »

I absolutely despise the touch-sensitive 'wheel' on my iPod Classic. It's useless if I'm working in the garage with nitrile gloves on. I've resorted to using my elbow or nose at times.

It's even pretty useless without gloves, if I've been doing anything that gets my hands dry, or had the iPod in my pocket so that it became relatively moist. I often have to breathe on my fingers before changing the volume!

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#69

Post by masklinn »

Zak wrote: post #56
ddagradi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only very, very roughly. The issue is dedicated capacitive buttons. On-screen buttons can give visual feedback, and are only present when they are contextually appropriate. Capacitive buttons are dedicated spots on the hardware that are always present no matter what you are using your device for at the moment.

Yes, it's an important distinction. Still, there are valid reasons for preferring physical buttons that virtual buttons or other on-screen controls do not address.

I only know of two, do you have more?

1. Feedback. This turns out to not be important for most people for most tasks. Still physical feedback (of layout and of action) important tool of physical interaction and required for eyes-free operation. I fully expect this problem to be solved within two years.

2. Software bypass. This is mostly useful in case of complete software lockup (low level/OS crash), but while most phones are built to be "always on" you can't always avoid low-level lock-up. And in that case you need to reset all transient device state. I expect the final fail-safe to remain a physical button, although some kind of watchdog running alongside the OS itself may be able to take care of 99% of the lockups.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#70

Post by masklinn »

joshu wrote: post #63
jasonkester wrote: post #44

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? Of course, said buttons are always next to impossible to press correctly (except by accident), so the standard use case is to mash your finger onto it until some form of feedback occurs. More often than not, that feedb…

I thought induction stoves caused metal pots to get hot via induction. They don't get hot on their own.

That is correct.
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