While the Urbit tech stack is clearly insane (some say it’s on purpose), The urbit identity layer is interesting and useful. You basically buy your username as a NFT, and that username is bound to signing keys, ip address and ethereum wallet. This makes it quite practical as an identity for chat / social network. This identity is on the eth blockchain and thus nobody can steal it / ban you, which is a unique value pr…
Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
61–70 of 173 posts
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#62Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#63The only good thing about Urbit are the Jorge Luis Borges references. Fun fact, the creator of Urbit, Curtis Yarvin, is a far-right blogger with some pretty crazy ideas: http://distributedweb.care/posts/who-owns-the-stars/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin > Curtis Guy Yarvin (born 1973), also known by the pen name Mencius Moldbug, is an American far-right blogger. Yarvin and his ideas are often associated…
What were the political views of the people who wrote my current OS? My current browser? The channels on my chip that the electrons flow? The drive of the server that stores this comment? Can you truly be woke if a bigot designed your RAM?
- Apple: Elegant, powerful, not much user choice but generally well-thought-out. And every bit is designed such that Apple keeps control of the platform.
- Unix hackers: Powerful command line interface, do one thing and do it well, KISS, adherence to tradtion (manpages etc.)
- Moxie Marlinspike: Concerned about user's privacy, thinks usability is paramount for adoption -> creates Signal
etc.
Now imagine an OS written by the Chinese communist party. Or a file-sharing program written by an anticapitalist group. Or a P2P marketplace by a drug cartel. Or a genealogy service created by white supremacists.
The (political) views of a creator are very relevant, if you believe the creation is used to further their goals!
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
It may not have been. The author of Urbit is Moldbug, who is... controversial. On the other hand, I just read the article, and none of it seems particularly bad faith. I vaguely remember something about Urbit using planets and galaxies as some kind of ownership metaphor, so I expected the article to go on at length about how strange this seems. But it seems to be focusing on the technical aspects of Urbit, and is pre…
Of course he's controversial, he thinks differently and he wrote his thoughts down. How dare he. Honestly in this age of this Marxism takeover, his thoughts aren't that crazy.
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#65People at large don't want their entire digital life secured by 12 words in a sock drawer in the same way that they don't want their entire life's savings secured by 12 words in a sock drawer. Urbit can't achieve mass adoption in its envisioned form without there being highly reliable peer key backup and sharing on Ethereum.
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course he's controversial, he thinks differently and he wrote his thoughts down. How dare he. Honestly in this age of this Marxism takeover, his thoughts aren't that crazy.
The guy appears to be sympathetic to white nationalist views, harbors racist ideas, and advocates for authoritarianism. That's a little far to write off as "thinks differently". Given that your account is "throwaway", I'm guessing you sense that there is something to be ashamed of or at least lost in social capital by defending him publicly?
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
What were the political views of the people who wrote my current OS? My current browser? The channels on my chip that the electrons flow? The drive of the server that stores this comment? Can you truly be woke if a bigot designed your RAM?
For a second, don't distinguish between political and other views. The ideals of the developers certainly shape the product. - Apple: Elegant, powerful, not much user choice but generally well-thought-out. And every bit is designed such that Apple keeps control of the platform. - Unix hackers: Powerful command line interface, do one thing and do it well, KISS, adherence to tradtion (manpages etc.) - Moxie Marlinspike…
Agree completely because it shapes the actual intent of the creation.
More just hinting if you could truly do an audit I'm not sure you'd be happy with what you found. For example, an operating system that requires all financial transactions that go through it has to take 30% to go into the wallet of the creators doesn't really seem particularly left leaning...
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#68The only good thing about Urbit are the Jorge Luis Borges references. Fun fact, the creator of Urbit, Curtis Yarvin, is a far-right blogger with some pretty crazy ideas: http://distributedweb.care/posts/who-owns-the-stars/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin > Curtis Guy Yarvin (born 1973), also known by the pen name Mencius Moldbug, is an American far-right blogger. Yarvin and his ideas are often associated…
>Like money, but every bit of democratic control and negotiability is removed. My understanding is that most cryptocurrencies intend to be extremely democratic. More democratic than all previously existing currencies, even. (Whether those ideas are feasible or those goals are being achieved is another matter.) I'm not sure where Yarvin stands on cryptocurrencies. He's indeed very anti-democracy and pro-monarchy, but…
Do they? They don't seem to be succeeding very well. Bitcoin mining is certainly very concentrated. And a lot the nominal cryptowhatever projects are effectively more centralized than that. Which of them do you see as democratic?
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#69The only good thing about Urbit are the Jorge Luis Borges references. Fun fact, the creator of Urbit, Curtis Yarvin, is a far-right blogger with some pretty crazy ideas: http://distributedweb.care/posts/who-owns-the-stars/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin > Curtis Guy Yarvin (born 1973), also known by the pen name Mencius Moldbug, is an American far-right blogger. Yarvin and his ideas are often associated…
What were the political views of the people who wrote my current OS? My current browser? The channels on my chip that the electrons flow? The drive of the server that stores this comment? Can you truly be woke if a bigot designed your RAM?
Re: Urbit: The good, the bad, and the insane
#701. Deterministic computing seems really interesting. It gives you something that is reliable and portable and replicable. It means you have to be very clear about everything that isn't deterministic, mostly I/O, and that's worth being clear about. I find determinism the more interesting part of pure functional programming, but I don't think you need a functional language to have deterministic computation.
2. Portable identity and communication are also interesting, they are necessary formal concepts if you are going to treat computation abstractly.
3. It's not crazy that you access this abstract concept of an OS using HTTP APIs and out-of-OS web frontends. It feels a little like smoke-and-mirrors since so much of what it "does" is actually the browser and JavaScript, but eh.
That said, Urbit is a terrible expression of these ideas. The expression of computation (Nock) is absurd. Jets seem a little clever, but it's really an fragile extension of the idea of JITs, but based on idioms to make up for Nock being unable to express basic computational concepts (like negative numbers). As a result the Jets are essentially the Real Bytecodes. I guess it's a little like the evolution of CPU microcode, but entirely unnecessary as Nock as no legacy or advantages that need to be preserved.
The language Hoon is the worst obscurantism I've ever seen. People will claim it's productive once you learn it, but I don't believe them one bit, the programs are long-winded, full of weird boilerplate, and just bad. They cover this up by making it seem that the programs _do_ something notable, but they don't. Most of the programs would be 100 lines in Node.js, they are just moving a little data around to rich (browser/JavaScript) clients.
There's no decent abstractions for an OS. The whole concept of the Urbit machine is that it's one big opaque bundle of bytes. There's no documents. There's no applications. There's no separation of concerns. There's no consideration that a usable system requires lots of different parties (OS makers, application developers, API developers, cloud services, etc) coming together, and there's no sense that managing the complexity of that intersection is something an OS should do.
There's no security. There's no permission model. There's no capability model. There's no firewalls between anything. It's like if you ran Python on bare metal and called it an OS.
That said, I bet someone could do something really cool in this general area using WASM, contained in something that acted like an OS but wasn't much more complicated than an execution container.