The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped • Hacker News Board

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#21

Post by masklinn » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:33 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #8

I remember when I bought an LG Chocolate when it first came on the scene about 5 years ago. It had capacitive touch buttons that were in such a bad place that if I was talking, and the button brushed against my ear it would hangup the call. It was awful and I vowed never again. Its the very reason I never got an iphone, opting for blackberry instead.

> Its the very reason I never got an iphone, opting for blackberry instead.

That makes no sense. The iPhone does not have any capacitive button. It has 3 (or 4 depending on the way you count the volume rocker) physical buttons and a capacitive touch screen.

And no, it's not the same.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#22

Post by harshpotatoes » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:42 PM UTC

Another issue people don't bring up: the weather. Living in Seattle I frequently wore mittens. With the physical buttons it would not be a problem to operate the phone, with the touchscreen there is this long ordeal of pulling off the mitten to answer the phone. If it is raining (or rather, when is it not raining?), the rain will mess with the touchscreen, making it sometimes impossible to answer a call. You might say there is a solution: either cut off the fingers or sew in some conducting thread to the tip of the mittens. This doesn't solve the rain problem though.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#23

Post by raganwald » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:47 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #11

ddagradi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I don't understand this argument. iPhones are one of the few phones that don't have this issue.

If I can activate a touch button with my finger than why not my ear? EDIT: I didn't know about the proximity sensors and other mechanisms until the replies below informed me. I still prefer tactile though :)

This is an example of Apple's design brilliance. They have a feature that just works, and it's perfectly normal for users to have no idea why it just works or why other products that seem to have the same features are so frustrating to use.

Of course, the downside is that people sometimes buy a product that seems to be "as good as an iPhone," and they have no idea that their user experience is worse than the iPhone's, they just assume the iPhone works just as poorly as theirs.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#24

Post by canistr » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:49 PM UTC

This is why I liked the older Android devices (as opposed to the new ones). Having physical buttons and a trackball were significantly better than both capacitive buttons and optical trackpads. Trackballs are significantly better than optical trackpads from a use-perspective. They work in all orientation, have finer grains of control, don't require awkward flicks to work, and have a much easier learning curve. The industry really needs to stop trying to the trendy thing and focus on things that work.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#25

Post by mark_story » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

harshpotatoes wrote: post #22

Another issue people don't bring up: the weather. Living in Seattle I frequently wore mittens. With the physical buttons it would not be a problem to operate the phone, with the touchscreen there is this long ordeal of pulling off the mitten to answer the phone. If it is raining (or rather, when is it not raining?), the rain will mess with the touchscreen, making it sometimes impossible to answer a call. You might sa…

I bought an iPod classic for this very reason. I don't want to have to take off my gloves in the winter to operate a simple machine. Real buttons have the benefit of being usable while the device is in your pocket which is nice as well.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#26

Post by sudonim » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

My guess is capacitive buttons have a lower failure rate than physical buttons. It's probably a decision born of cost.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#27

Post by mark_story » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 5:01 PM UTC

One place I found that capacitive buttons have worked well is on the newer xbox models. The power and tray eject buttons are capacitive and it works well there.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#28

Post by ddagradi » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

mark_story wrote: post #27

One place I found that capacitive buttons have worked well is on the newer xbox models. The power and tray eject buttons are capacitive and it works well there.

It's more appropriate on a device you're not as likely to brush up against accidentally, or need to interact with very deeply.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#29

Post by Zak » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 5:08 PM UTC

sudonim wrote: post #26

My guess is capacitive buttons have a lower failure rate than physical buttons. It's probably a decision born of cost.

I don't doubt it. The problem is that consumers are still viewing them as a high-end feature instead of the cost-cutting measure they are, so they keep showing up in high-end products with prices that could support the superior and more costly physical buttons.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#30

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 5:12 PM UTC

Its interesting to hear designers on a rant about capacitive buttons. Switches are the bane of most electrical engineers because they cost a lot and they have a finite lifetime. So generally they are thing that is going to 'kill' the product. And because they are both mechanical and have moving parts (in the non-capacitive variant) when they break the users just push harder trying to get them to work and that can crack traces on the circuit board and end the life of an otherwise working piece of gear.

Capacitive buttons can be 'tuned' (which is to say one can adjust how sensitive they are) somewhat depending on their antenna design and the ambient conditions. What is really hard for them is in a high emf environment (think lots of fourescents and shag carpets) there is so much charge available at your fingertip that even turned waay down they fire with the barest touch, reverse the circumstance like a modestly humid day out in a field somewhere and they are lucky if they can see your finger at all. If you're finger is wet (and thus charge will tend to distribute more evenly around you body) they are nearly worthless.

I recently saw some interesting 'piezo' buttons where they were effectively capacitive buttons but covered by a bit of piezo material so that you had to push on them to get them to activate. But while better in many ways, the cost difference between a button that is just a trace on the PCB (essentially free) and one that has a bit of piezo material in it (even if it only costs 2 or 3 cents) is easily someones salary when you're activating 500,000 devices a day.