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I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

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Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#51

Post by readthenotes1 »

darkhorse22 wrote: post #42
jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

Exactly, we need three categories: M, W, ?. In ?, anything goes: Hormones, steroids, doping, etc. We can't let nature hold back sport.

We shouldn't separate by gender (which is irrelevant for sport performance using the "identify as" definition), but should simply use testosterone level: low, medium, high, based on highest level tested.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#52

Post by ASalazarMX »

Dobbs wrote: post #21
DanBC wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes There's no evidence of this. EDIT: If you think trans athletes have an advantage try finding some trans athlete who demonstrates this.

Quoted post unavailable.

Toxic is calling other people toxic for not following your emotional opinions.

It's incontestable that male-to-female trans have an unfair physical advantage over females, take the case of Fallon Fox, the MMA female trans fighter who has fractured the skull of female rivals. Having trans females fight biological females is unethical.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#53

Post by bigphishy »

Smaug123 wrote: post #50
bigphishy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a fetus is exposed to testosterone ( as males are ) their physiology is fundamentally and unalterably changed.

All things lie on a spectrum: there's no binary "was exposed to testosterone in the womb", nor is there a binary "their physiology is changed or not". See, for example, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190318151730.h... , a paper which purports to show that females who shared a womb with males tend to have some of their life outcomes pushed towards the testosterone end of the scale.

I have to correct my original comment, it's actually the presence of the Y chromosome, and consequently the reaction of androgen receptors to testosterone in the womb that causes the physiological change on the male fetus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_receptor#Effect_on_de...

This event early on in the embryo's development is tantamount to dividing males from females.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#54

Post by Dobbs »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #52
Dobbs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Toxic is calling other people toxic for not following your emotional opinions. It's incontestable that male-to-female trans have an unfair physical advantage over females, take the case of Fallon Fox, the MMA female trans fighter who has fractured the skull of female rivals. Having trans females fight biological females is unethical.

Except nothing you said is true. Fallon Fox has not caused more head injuries than is statistically likely for MMA. There is no actual evidence of trans women having an oversized advantage in sports and when it has been tried to be studied has had mixed results at best. Additionally despite trans people being allowed to compete in the olympics for over a decade it has been basically non existent.

Things that seem “common sense” often are far more complicated then they seem on the surface.

Should trans people partake in youth sports? Maybe sorta, with restrictions it depends. Should adult trans women be allowed to partake in sports, probably yes after sufficient time on hormones as the limited data we have says it isn’t a significant advantage, or may be a disadvantage. That said we should study and learn.

This conversation is toxic because people who don’t understand the subject matter come in and say things they don’t understand and continually insult and degrade a vulnerable minority.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#56

Post by ASalazarMX »

Dobbs wrote: post #54
ASalazarMX wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toxic is calling other people toxic for not following your emotional opinions. It's incontestable that male-to-female trans have an unfair physical advantage over females, take the case of Fallon Fox, the MMA female trans fighter who has fractured the skull of female rivals. Having trans females fight biological females is unethical.

Except nothing you said is true. Fallon Fox has not caused more head injuries than is statistically likely for MMA. There is no actual evidence of trans women having an oversized advantage in sports and when it has been tried to be studied has had mixed results at best. Additionally despite trans people being allowed to compete in the olympics for over a decade it has been basically non existent. Things that seem “co…

I seriously don't understand why are you defending that trans-women don't have a physical advantage against women?

The article is about post-puberty trans women dominating the first places. High-performance athletes train hard, but also have an innate biological advantage that gives them that slight edge to reach the podium. Post-puberty trans women had their innate biological advantage growing male, and hormone replacement can lessen, but not fully revert that.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#58

Post by thrixton »

jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

In a simplistic sense.

It's unfair for both parties.

But one party made a choice and should therefore bear the unfair cost of their choice.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#59

Post by lumberingjack »

jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

Special Olympics and events already exist for mentally ill put them there they sort of belong

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#60

Post by lumberingjack »

steanne wrote: post #22
tasogare wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard would it be to base the categories on basic biology, like a chromosome test? It seems the current rules are crafted specially to be bend. It also raises the question of sport’s universality. Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world. Will there be a split at the international level between countries that use sex and those that use gender for making the two categories?

physical sex is not as binary as people like to believe, even excluding trans people. for instance, having a y chromosome does not necessarily mean developing a male body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivit...

The epidemiology of that says that they're so few of those cases that it wouldn't even relate to a sports case because there wouldn't be enough of them to compete in sports unless they all got together like midgets and lived in the same place
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