If the IRS knows how much money I owe why dont they just send me a bill?
What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
61–70 of 188 posts
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#62I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#63I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
No idea why you're being downvoted
Rich != Wealthy. "Rich" tends to refer to people who are generating lots of cash, oftentimes through labor (like doctors or lawyers or athletes). "Wealthy" tends to refer to people who own lots of assets and generate cash through asset appreciation/sales and real property. Wealthy people will push for income taxes while trying to eliminate capital gains and inheritance taxes. This conversation came up years ago when…
Income tax taxes people who work for a living. Property + capital gains tax both tax assets appreciation and rent seekers (unless the investment is a high risk venture into a startup or something ambitious).
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#65I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.
Why does the middle class clamor to raise taxes on the rich, which won't appreciably benefit themselves, when they could instead push to lower taxes on themselves, which will benefit themselves?
Maybe different in Europe, but in the USA tax increases do not find their way back to benefits for the public.
I mean unless by "public" you mean the next country we want to "liberate" and bring "democracy" to...
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#66I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
What sort of evidence would we expect to see if that was true?
I live in a country with a thoroughly dysfunctional banking system which, by most accounts, fall right in the middle of the global income bracket.
Yet I know a ton of people in the upper-middle and lower-upper class and they all have the following characteristics of their wealth, which _do not_ appear in most wealth statistics:
* One or multiple bank accounts in offshore tax havens, with the US being the most important
* Multiple properties, whose real ownership is hidden by being assigned to family members, friends, and relatives
* A lot of overseas trips to buy things that are normally horribly expensive due to to import restrictions.
* A deep, thorough understanding not only of tax law, but also personal connections with people who work in tax agencies to understand when to avoid (legally), when to evade (knowing the tax agency won't pursue evasions under a certain currency amount) and when to get into convenient tax amnesty regimes.
Again, these aren't phenomenally rich people and they're easily hiding away 50-85% of their net wealth. By most metrics these people's income would, in theory, put them in median American lifestyle. Yet it's obvious that their standard of living _easily_ puts them in the top 2-5% of a developed country, with the addition that labor costs are so cheap that they can afford services even pretty wealthy people in other places cannot.
This is a classic in Latin America, and I have no reasons to believe it's any different elsewhere; the instruments are just different.
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#67I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#68I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.
Not sure about the first sentence, but how is "most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich" a conspiracy theory? Isn't that the whole basis of capitalism? I am asking honestly. The social order being a mostly immutable pyramid has always been the natural model of how things work in my mind.
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Never, eh? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/19/bill-gates-taxes-on-rich-sho... https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jul/13/super-rich-call... https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/06/the-ultra-weal...
None of these are calls for wealth taxes. These are calls for income taxes. This is called “pulling up the ladder.”
Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use
#70If the IRS knows how much money I owe why dont they just send me a bill?
The real question, in my mind, is that, knowing John Q. Taxpayer is burdened with understanding the tax code in it's entirety (in the spherical cow, in a vacuum sense), why in heaven's name are things written in such a manner whereby doing everything by the book is so hard?
From my experience, most people get the income part, those who have good portfolios get capital gains, but most people don't even know where to start looking if they aren't guided to it by an adversarial audit, which are guaranteed to be counterproductive in fostering the any degree of goodwill between taxpayer and tax service. Obviously, an accountant is capable of learning the corpus of material to be able to work with it, but given both the licensure requirement, and the fact most accounting questions I've heard resulted in a lot of open to interpretation answers, I'm not at all confident saying it is reasonable to expect the taxpayer to accurately report things, and furthermore, to expect some group of experts to handle it for everyone else, we've not done a good job at treating tax expertise as a public good in the accessibility department.
In short, at it's core an information propagation problem, suffering from perverse incentives present in private enterprise guarding and perpetuating information asymmetry to create opportunities for profit extraction at the expense of public process being rendered largely ineffectual.