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What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

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Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#51

Post by sig-reduction »

slifin wrote: post #19
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

I have a conspiracy theory that Forbes created the rich list Which intentionally does not have despots oligarchs or royals to skew the conversation to a business matter which can get lost in the left/right divide

OP's conspiracy theory is absolutely true. There is a whole thread of academic research estimating the right tail of the wealth distribution (spoiler: the Fed household finances microdata is garbage).

Diff the Bloomberg and Forbes rich lists... they're not the same list. One oligarch on those lists had their estimated net worth double after the Appleby leaks turned up some trusts. I'm pretty sure Bloomberg just calls people up and asks them how much they have.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#52

Post by dboreham »

Cyril_HN wrote: post #48
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

What sort of evidence would we expect to see if that was true?

Widespread support for tax cuts for rich people?

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#53

Post by toomanyrichies »

symlinkk wrote: post #42
koheripbal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason is that Americans owe money on more income than the gov't is aware of, and if you're going to omit income, they want you to explicitly lie about it so you can be prosecuted for it.

They could still send you a bill that lists your income and has a note that says “If you had any income that is not reported here, report it on irs.gov/…. Failure to do so is punishable by …” This would make things significantly easier for 90% of the population.

This is what I'd think as well. If they wanted to corner someone into explicitly lying in order to allow for prosecution, wouldn't they still be doing so by claiming non-standard deductions which they weren't actually eligible for?

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#54

Post by YinglingLight »

slifin wrote: post #19
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

I have a conspiracy theory that Forbes created the rich list Which intentionally does not have despots oligarchs or royals to skew the conversation to a business matter which can get lost in the left/right divide

The investor class, the salary class (us), the wage class, the welfare class.

Every outcry for equality that doesn't speak in these terms is manufactured by the investor class. Occupy WallStreet scared the bejeezus out of them. We now have Critical Race Theory to divide us, Woke-ism, etc.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#55

Post by internetslave »

Cyril_HN wrote: post #48
internetslave wrote: post #13

I have a conspiracy theory that there are far more rich people than we are lead to believe, also that most of us are just working to prop them up and keep them rich.

What sort of evidence would we expect to see if that was true?

I just don’t buy the wealth distribution that they are showing us. I don’t think the government even knows the true wealth distribution. I think it’s also partly political, they can’t go, “hey! Look how many people have 100 million!”

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#56

Post by the_optimist »

macintux wrote: post #47
the_optimist wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.

Never, eh? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/19/bill-gates-taxes-on-rich-sho... https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jul/13/super-rich-call... https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/06/the-ultra-weal...

None of these are calls for wealth taxes. These are calls for income taxes.

This is called “pulling up the ladder.”

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#57

Post by bananabreakfast »

maxerickson wrote: post #38
cle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they don't actually know how much taxes you owe. They aren't omniscient (thankfully) so they don't know e.g. how much in deductions you should have. (I agree that #2 is a big problem, but I don't think it's actually the reason we file taxes.)

People mostly take the standard deduction. (85-90% of households in recent years)

It will be far more now after the Trump tax bill as well.

You now have to be able to deduct over $24k to not take the standard deduction.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#58

Post by coderintherye »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #44
TOSSAWAY_1 wrote: post #24

If the IRS knows how much money I owe why dont they just send me a bill?

You proceed from a fallacy. The IRS doesn't know how much tax you owe because Congress has created a massively complex system that includes using deductions to incentivize certain types of behavior, as well as using the tax system as a mechanism to deliver means-tested benefits.

You assume everyone itemizes deductions. There is a thing called the "standard deduction" which renders your point moot for the people using it which I suspect has a lot of overlap with the people who would like the IRS to do the calculation.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#59

Post by bananabreakfast »

nostromo wrote: post #28
froh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting. what makes you think so?

If you doubled or tripled the number of cops in LA, would they solve more difficult crimes in the monied and lawyered Hollywood Hills? Or would they go after more petty crime in South Central, where it’s easy to get a conviction?

that's a poor comparison. The IRS are not cops, and the monied and lawyered do not commit petty crime at a high level whereas they do commit tax evasion at a much higher level.

Re: What lies beneath: Evidence from leaked account data on offshore banking use

#60

Post by ZeroGravitas »

hanniabu wrote: post #41
the_optimist wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll never see rich people argue for a wealth tax, but they sure as hell will parade demanding that we raise taxes on income of the service class.

No idea why you're being downvoted

I didn't downvote, but the comment did confuse me as it's an oddly specific complaint.

If indeed there are lots of very wealthy people who are calling for higher income taxes on high earners (and I personally didn't think that was something so common as to be a stereotype) then that's hardly the worst thing they're doing.

It comes across as someone who really doesn't like taxes, probably because they've listened to too much propaganda generated by very wealthy people who have a vested interest in taxes being seen as a universally bad thing.

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