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How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

jeremyaboyd.com

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Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#81

Post by taylodl »

asattarmd wrote: post #49
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!

I use Command+o to open a file and Command+p to print a file. It's also kinda handy to make a duplicate of a file using Command+d. Of course deleting a file is Command+Delete and ejecting a volume is Command+e. For consistency you'd think renaming a file would be Command+r but at some point in time (the first Mac?) they decided on expediency and made it Enter instead.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#82

Post by dahart »

Are there any thorough UX studies of modern OSX vs Windows, for many of the OS UI choices and applications? While I’d agree that the OSX install process is quirky, it’s just a single example and it’s not compared to anything. It’s easy to complain about single examples of unintuitiveness in any OS - they all have them, many of them. It would be interesting to see a more complete and fair comparison, if such a thing exists.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#83

Post by sgarland »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #36
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

The inability to easily go to $HOME in Finder is of great annoyance to mevwhen combined with app signing. Hashicorp seems to run into this most often - download a new version of Terraform/Packer/whatever, install to ~/.terraform.d/plugins/darwin_amd64, and MacOS sternly tells me I can't run it, with zero instructions on how to proceed. Manually type the path in Finder/Go, Option+Open the binary, then you're good to go.

I understand the reasoning for protecting the end user, but like UAC in Windows, or Developer Mode options in Android, you should be able to disable these protections. If I want to run a binary, I want to run that binary.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#84

Post by geraneum »

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily driver). We've had a lot of good progress so far but we need to do better.

As an example, reading the comments here, one person likes the sorting on macOS and another one despises it! Apparently, the term "intuitive" has a different meaning to different people. If we want to measure it we at least need to be on the same page about what it even means?

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#85

Post by EamonnMR »

rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

Trying to find a file you know the name of in finder is absolute murder. I often find myself resorting to `ls | grep` then `open` in the terminal.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#86

Post by selykg »

sgarland wrote: post #83
TulliusCicero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, by default Finder seems to hide directory structure from you. This seems to be Apple thinking it'll confuse people if they can see 'up' directories, but I think just as often it confuses people like me who are trying and failing to go up. I use all three major desktop OSes regularly now, and overall Windows just feels like the most user-friendly and straightforward, though of course it too has issues (e.g. vari…

The inability to easily go to $HOME in Finder is of great annoyance to mevwhen combined with app signing. Hashicorp seems to run into this most often - download a new version of Terraform/Packer/whatever, install to ~/.terraform.d/plugins/darwin_amd64, and MacOS sternly tells me I can't run it, with zero instructions on how to proceed. Manually type the path in Finder/Go, Option+Open the binary, then you're good to g…

You can actually just goto your home folder. Goto Finder>Preferences, then Sidebar, you'll find your home folder is stashed away in there but not checked. It'll just be your username.

You can also unhide hidden dot folders as well if you wish but by default those are hidden. I don't have the instructions for that right now but a google search can find it for you if you want it.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#87

Post by tpmoney »

asattarmd wrote: post #49
rchaud wrote: post #14

I bought a Mac in 2014 after a lifetime of using Windows. I never understood why people called it easier to use than Windows. Maybe this sentiment is a holdover from an earlier era when people would mindlessly run executables and zip files attached in emails and AIM messages. From a UI perspective, it's 90% identical to windows. From a UX perspective though, something fundamental like Finder is still not up to the jo…

The worst: pressing Enter to rename a file in finder. Command + Down arrow to open it. WTF!

Command-up arrow moves up a directory level. Command-down arrow makes a logical choice for moving down a directory level, and since moving down a directory is the same as opening that directory, it follows command down would also open a file.

Whether renaming as “enter” is a good shortcut or not, I think the navigation ones are perfectly reasonable in that if you learn one of them, it’s opposite is easily guessed.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#88

Post by crazypython »

j-pb wrote: post #15

The entire thing used to be super intuitive and consistent. Disk images were the mac equivalent of a compressed folder, e.g. zip. And I find the "compressedd virtual usb-stick" idea a lot more intuitive than the whole "we cram files into other files and loose all metadata" shenanigans. Apps used to be simple files in the finest unix tradition. No weird installer that does who knows what, no wizards, no special system…

Indeed, a .pkg is just a compressed folder and a bash script.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#89

Post by rapsey »

geraneum wrote: post #84

If a certain way of doing things which I am very much used to does not apply to a different environment, it does not mean the subject is not intuitive whether it's macOS, Windows, etc. To me, intuitiveness means how easy it is to operate the system correctly without prior training. Honestly, for a non-tech savvy, macOS and Windows both have many quirks and don't let me start with Linux distros (Fedora is my daily dri…

What keeps me on macOS is keyboard shortcuts. Typing on windows or linux is so much more annoying.

Re: How Intuitive Are Macs Really?

#90

Post by bombcar »

scotty79 wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it that when I click Finder, nothing actually opens? I'm not sure what you're doing wrong here - when I click the Finder icon it shows me the top Finder window, or opens a new one if there is no window. Is this not what it does for you?

Maybe it's a bug. I had plenty of those accumulating using mac for few months.

If finder has a window anywhere clicking on the finder in the dock doesn't open a new finder window - it just tries to bring the current one forward.

If you have many windows, it can be hard to notice (especially if you have many monitors).

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