https://www.flightradar24.com/WZZ6285/27cf8309
Interesting - they avoid Russia (it appears overflying Russia instead would also be about the same distance and involve only one overfly fee).
Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
211–220 of 332 posts
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not so. Sanctions can be devastatingly effective applied by a significant majority of the world over a length of time. Sanctions were the instrument that brought an end to the Apartheid regime in South Africa: sanctions, having brought the South African economy to its knees, were a key factor in forcing the ruling regime to the negotiating table. Yes, in some fairytale world the ruling National Party could have conti…
What about Cuba? North Korea? Iran? They’ve been sanctioned for decades with devastating human consequences and little to no sign of those sanctions spurring any meaningful change.
I don't disagree with you but I do wonder whether for sanctions to be successful relies a lot on the way the population is feeling about the regime at the start. If they population decides to dig in, then the sanctions start to have a negative effect (in terms of getting a desired outcome).
If on the other hand the population is already angry at the regime, maybe it has the desired effect.
Idle musing without supporting evidence.
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. People keep saying that as if that was a kind of universally acknowledged wisdom. Here is a map of the 39 countries targeted by European sanctions (not counting the ones specifically targeting ISIS territories or various regions of Ukraine): https://sanctionsmap.eu/#/main There has been sanctions against Belarus for a while,…
I'm an EU citizen we obviously have a different viewpoint on this but the link you sent to me shows precisely all bark in my opinion. Holding off on a few weapons exports here and there is meaningless. > People keep saying that If it's the general concensus there may be some reason for that. I'm sure Belarus wouldnt try this with a US plane. > Turkey doesn't have to "watch", they also received sanctions after the dri…
UK company -> UK plane
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
What kind of sanction do you have in mind?
No use of airspace and no trade with NATO countries until the prisoners are released. It would take a week.
No use of airspace is already being discussed and likely going to happen.
NATO is a military alliance, not a trade union. There's no way for them to organize what you're suggesting.
> It would take a week.
Fidel might like to have a word with you...
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#215This will likely have no consequences to the regime in Belarus, while increasing costs to these Baltic airlines. A policy that might achieve something would be if the Baltic states, together with Poland and Ukraine, would close their airspace to Belavia planes, until the detained passenger is delivered to his destination in Vilnius. This will increase costs to Belarusian airlines, which would be a problem to the regi…
I don't think passenger airline companies have the authority to close the airspace of a country. That would have to be a political decision.
They certainly have the ability to decide on the route their planes take, if not others.
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Germany insistence on closing nuclear power plants is doing Europe a lot of harm. It opens up one of the great powers of Europe to be controlled by Russia.
It's just making an option for energy cheaper. Russia needs it too, since they can't sell with profits internally. From my POV, it's just an additional option you get to sanction them with if they are acting in bad faith ( again) while getting cheaper options.
The only option it gives is to shut down gas for Ukraine while supplying their friends in Germany.
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they have already proved time and time again they are a dog which is all bark and no bite. People keep saying that as if that was a kind of universally acknowledged wisdom. Here is a map of the 39 countries targeted by European sanctions (not counting the ones specifically targeting ISIS territories or various regions of Ukraine): https://sanctionsmap.eu/#/main There has been sanctions against Belarus for a while,…
I'm an EU citizen we obviously have a different viewpoint on this but the link you sent to me shows precisely all bark in my opinion. Holding off on a few weapons exports here and there is meaningless. > People keep saying that If it's the general concensus there may be some reason for that. I'm sure Belarus wouldnt try this with a US plane. > Turkey doesn't have to "watch", they also received sanctions after the dri…
Well, read the link again: the sanctions include a list of names, whose assets are frozen, who can't travel in EU and companies that have the same fate.
Economic sanctions are the most effective non-military actions states can take against each others.
Short of military invasion what do you suggest EU does?
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm an EU citizen we obviously have a different viewpoint on this but the link you sent to me shows precisely all bark in my opinion. Holding off on a few weapons exports here and there is meaningless. > People keep saying that If it's the general concensus there may be some reason for that. I'm sure Belarus wouldnt try this with a US plane. > Turkey doesn't have to "watch", they also received sanctions after the dri…
UK company -> UK plane
headquarters are in Dublin.
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Germany should really consider term limits for the bundestag and chancellor. Allowing a single politician to rule the country for an entire generation is absurd.
The limit is not set, however chancellor must be voted in every 46 to 48 months. However your second point is not correct at all, Germany had made their beurocracy specifically in such a way after WW2 that one person cannot dictate/rule the country. Every decision must pass through appropreate ministries first. This is one of the reasons COVID vaccination rollout was so slow in the beginning but after all the "approv…
Thank you for the clarification -- but Merkel has been in power for over 15 years. I don't care how many interested parties and fellow bureaucrats keep re-electing her, or that her position is less-than-queen. For the rest of the world, she's the face of Germany. Time for a new one -- like maybe after 5 years at the helm.
Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Closer, but it had the wrong altitude for Vilnius. They were intercepted earlier. See this visualization https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1396482250812841986
Very interesting! Is there a sensible explanation for this? Have they known up-front that the flight is going to be diverted? Or maybe they were radio-ed before, and there was some discussion / negotiation (during which time, they aborted their descent to Vilnius)...
[deleted]