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I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

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Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#21

Post by Dobbs »

DanBC wrote: post #8
jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

> Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes There's no evidence of this. EDIT: If you think trans athletes have an advantage try finding some trans athlete who demonstrates this.

No post body was provided.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#22

Post by steanne »

tasogare wrote: post #15
jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

How hard would it be to base the categories on basic biology, like a chromosome test? It seems the current rules are crafted specially to be bend. It also raises the question of sport’s universality. Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world. Will there be a split at the international level between countries that use sex and those that use gender for making the two categories?

physical sex is not as binary as people like to believe, even excluding trans people. for instance, having a y chromosome does not necessarily mean developing a male body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivit...

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#23

Post by [deleted] »

tasogare wrote: post #15
jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

How hard would it be to base the categories on basic biology, like a chromosome test? It seems the current rules are crafted specially to be bend. It also raises the question of sport’s universality. Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world. Will there be a split at the international level between countries that use sex and those that use gender for making the two categories?

[deleted]

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#24

Post by NateEag »

DanBC wrote: post #7

So, she won, but somehow trans athletes have a huge advantage and will dominate the sport, even though there are no trans athletes dominating their sport? This article is just recycled homophobia following the UK pattern of vicious, anti-science, transphobia. There's no substance here -- the science shows that trans athletes do not have an advantage; the stats show that trans athletes don't have an advantage. The arg…

> The argument isn't driven by fact, it's driven by hate.

Whether your claims are true or not (and I haven't looked into that myself), this assertion is worlds away from assuming good faith. I see no evidence for it in the article.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#25

Post by austincheney »

jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

The difference there is that female athletes do not choose to be female. A transgender person, according to your personal politics, may not choose to be transgender, but taking hormones for a sex transition therapy is a choice. Female athletes should not be punished with unfair competition for that choice of hormone therapy upon a biological male.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#26

Post by leephillips »

DanBC wrote: post #8
jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

> Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes There's no evidence of this. EDIT: If you think trans athletes have an advantage try finding some trans athlete who demonstrates this.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighte...

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#27

Post by caddemon »

jpgvm wrote: post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

The biggest problem with that is probably that there aren't enough trans people at the high school athletics level to form a local league. For something like running it is maybe realistic, but for any team sports it's definitely not. Basketball feels like an example where a single dominant player could change the outcome of a league, but you would still need like 10 kids per school minimum to field a team.

I think most trans men want to compete with the men anyway though, in fact the controversy with the FtM wrestler crushing a bunch of women a few years ago was because his conservative state wouldn't let him compete with the men.

IMO the men's league should be open to anyone that can make it, so the issue is really just who should qualify for the women's league - which presumably only those that identify as women would even try to. I would think the vast majority of people agree that a trans woman that just started hormones yesterday should not be allowed to compete with women, so there would have to be some restriction beyond just identity. Figuring out the specifics is tough though.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#28

Post by injb »

DanBC wrote: post #17
caddemon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I won that race, and I'm grateful. But time after time, I have lost. I’ve lost four women’s state championship titles, two all-New England awards, and numerous other spots on the podium to male runners. I was bumped to third place in the 55-meter dash in 2019, behind two male runners." I'm honestly not familiar with the literature on this issue at all, but the way you misrepresented the current article does not insp…

> I'm honestly not familiar with the literature on this issue at all But you've accepted at face values the claims this woman is making? https://www.outsports.com/2018/6/14/17458696/trans-athlete-c... > When you look at the results, it might be easy to understand why some people, like Soule, are upset. On the face of the results, it looks like two trans athletes have suddenly come along and raced into state titles an…

>>The idea people are struggling with is that some advantages are fair, while others are cheating

This idea is the very basis of all human competition. The fact that we can't identify exactly which things are fair and which things are not doesn't make it incoherent.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#30

Post by CodeGlitch »

DanBC wrote: post #10
austincheney wrote: post #9

My daughter was the fast kid from her school this year at 800m running at 2:27. The fast male from her school ran it at 1:57. That is an enormous difference. Female athletes cannot fairly compete against biological males in sprints.

Now give that male puberty blockers for several years and test testosterone levels before allowing them to compete and see the times they get.

You do realise it's not just the hormones at the point of competition that affect your performance? Males have a totally different skeletal structure to females. Especially around the hips. The difference in bone configuration gives male runners a massive advantage.
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