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I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

usatoday.com

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Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#11
post #4

Any rational discussion about this topic had unfortunately lead to accusations of *phobia nearly instantly, without considering the content of the argument.

Or there are legitimate issues of transphobia surrounding this topic. This is used as a stick to beat trans people often ignoring the realities of the situation. How few trans individuals compete, how the ones that do don't generally operate at a higher level than statistically is likely. How the scientific evidence we have on the matter is limited and conflicted at best for people who are are on HRT. It additionally ignores how people on HRT often operate at lower levels than cis women do.

The issue is largely with youth not adults, yet every time the issue is brought out to attack adult trans people. Additionally this is somehow used to demonise trans people and that is then further used to limit access to puberty inhibitors which give trans youth more time to make decisions, and completely eliminate the actual problem with trans youth competing.

So the fact that this is the new favorite beating stick that transphobes use to attack trans people is probably why most people arguing this are called transphobes.

Flippant statements like yours then add to the issue because they try and dismiss the legitimate issues and nuances around this discussion and further lead to the voices of trans people being silenced, and the further attempts to restrict trans people's rights and access to health care.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#12
post #7

So, she won, but somehow trans athletes have a huge advantage and will dominate the sport, even though there are no trans athletes dominating their sport? This article is just recycled homophobia following the UK pattern of vicious, anti-science, transphobia. There's no substance here -- the science shows that trans athletes do not have an advantage; the stats show that trans athletes don't have an advantage. The arg…

"I won that race, and I'm grateful. But time after time, I have lost. I’ve lost four women’s state championship titles, two all-New England awards, and numerous other spots on the podium to male runners. I was bumped to third place in the 55-meter dash in 2019, behind two male runners."

I'm honestly not familiar with the literature on this issue at all, but the way you misrepresented the current article does not inspire confidence in your other claims.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#14
post #8
post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

> Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes There's no evidence of this. EDIT: If you think trans athletes have an advantage try finding some trans athlete who demonstrates this.

They are still guys. There's at least dozens, probably hundreds of examples.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#15
post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

How hard would it be to base the categories on basic biology, like a chromosome test? It seems the current rules are crafted specially to be bend.

It also raises the question of sport’s universality. Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world. Will there be a split at the international level between countries that use sex and those that use gender for making the two categories?

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#16
@dang HN at the best of times is horrifically biased and awful when it comes to discussions of minority and womens rights. Often due to people who insist on playing devils advocates and disregard any voices or experiences that are counter to their own.

This article is just fuel for the fire and will only be used to attack trans people.

Can you please kill it, and make sure it stays dead? Longer term I don't know what can be done to make HN a better more inclusive place, but as it stands HN is not a welcoming place and more and more people I know who are women or minorities avoid it and actively advise avoiding it. Which makes me really sad because it was such a strong and core part of my early career 10 years ago.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#17
post #7

So, she won, but somehow trans athletes have a huge advantage and will dominate the sport, even though there are no trans athletes dominating their sport? This article is just recycled homophobia following the UK pattern of vicious, anti-science, transphobia. There's no substance here -- the science shows that trans athletes do not have an advantage; the stats show that trans athletes don't have an advantage. The arg…

"I won that race, and I'm grateful. But time after time, I have lost. I’ve lost four women’s state championship titles, two all-New England awards, and numerous other spots on the podium to male runners. I was bumped to third place in the 55-meter dash in 2019, behind two male runners." I'm honestly not familiar with the literature on this issue at all, but the way you misrepresented the current article does not insp…

> I'm honestly not familiar with the literature on this issue at all

But you've accepted at face values the claims this woman is making?

https://www.outsports.com/2018/6/14/17458696/trans-athlete-c...

> When you look at the results, it might be easy to understand why some people, like Soule, are upset. On the face of the results, it looks like two trans athletes have suddenly come along and raced into state titles and decades-old records

> Yet when you look a little deeper, there’s more to the story.

> First, Miller and Yearwood aren’t “beating everyone.”

> Yearwood finished seventh in the 200-meter. Five girls, other than Miller, beat her in that race.

> Miller, in addition to her two big wins, also ran the 400-meter and finished fourth.

> Both of these trans girls were beaten by cisgender girls at the state meet.

> The idea that they are unbeatable, or that any advantage they may experience as trans athletes is “unfair,” are undermined when you look beyond the headlines of state titles and records.

The idea people are struggling with is that some advantages are fair, while others are cheating. This is incoherent. Should we ban rich children who get private coaching from sporting competitions? Why not?

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#18
post #10

My daughter was the fast kid from her school this year at 800m running at 2:27. The fast male from her school ran it at 1:57. That is an enormous difference. Female athletes cannot fairly compete against biological males in sprints.

Now give that male puberty blockers for several years and test testosterone levels before allowing them to compete and see the times they get.

Why artificially damage a promising athlete? This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#19
post #2

I don't disagree with their plight but it does raise the question of where transgender athletes should compete. Male-to-female athletes likely have an advantage over female athletes but a disadvantage over similarly aged males that aren't undergoing hormone treatments. Female-to-male athletes are probably different again, probably less severe than the former case though but still creating an advantage over natural fe…

How hard would it be to base the categories on basic biology, like a chromosome test? It seems the current rules are crafted specially to be bend. It also raises the question of sport’s universality. Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world. Will there be a split at the international level between countries that use sex and those that use gender for making the two categories?

1) chromosome tests are useless. They set the original blueprint of what your body is, but if that original blueprint is ignored then they mean nothing.

2) As the original comment mentioned this completely fails for trans men. They are often physically stronger due to the higher presences of testosterone in the body.

3) For trans women this often fails because once sufficient time is spent on oestrogen testosterone levels drop to often below cis female levels. This causes a drop in muscle mass and can lead to the "bigger body, smaller engine" problem. Additionally with trans youth who have earlier access to puberty blockers and then earlier access to hormones they may never have gone through a traditional "male" puberty.

> Telling appart men and wen isn’t even controversial in most of the world.

This is a very bad statement in many ways. At best this is a confirmation bias. You notice the trans people who you notice, therefore you don't have a good barometer of who is trans and who isn't unless they tell you. I know plenty of trans people who you would never be able to recognize.

Even for non-trans people this can be very deceptive and is very cultural dependent.

Re: I was the fastest girl in Connecticut. But transgender athletes made it unfair

#20
post #10

My daughter was the fast kid from her school this year at 800m running at 2:27. The fast male from her school ran it at 1:57. That is an enormous difference. Female athletes cannot fairly compete against biological males in sprints.

Now give that male puberty blockers for several years and test testosterone levels before allowing them to compete and see the times they get.

How many trans people realize early enough in life (and have the parental support) to actually use puberty blockers?
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