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If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

theguardian.com

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Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#171

Post by stjohnswarts »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #168
landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

The idea that a company can "sell" privacy is completely fabricated by those who are collecting vast amounts of data about users. Revenue-producing mass data collection by "tech" companies creates a "privacy" issue. Is the solution to "sell" privacy. Of course not. Data collection makes more money. That is why "tech" companies offer so many things to users for "free". There would be little or no money to be made in s…

Show me a phone that works as well as my iphone plus has better privacy and I'll be the first one laying my money down on the counter. I don't think you need to remind us of the dead obvious trade off of apple vs android vs linux, we're all techies around here.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#172

Post by stjohnswarts »

spoonjim wrote: post #44
Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

It’s basically impossible for an American company to defy the American government. They can try in court but ultimately the government has F-22s and nuclear weapons and Apple does not.

This is completely untrue. Tell me the last time the US government used nukes and F22s on a company lmao. You always have courts and laws.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#173

Post by herbst »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

I don't get this either. Apple is a private US company, making every privacy aspect more or less obsolete. I can't even trust them to not leak private data to foreign servers, which is definitely not what I understand as data privacy

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#174

Post by herbst »

chevill wrote: post #136
yosito wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know where else you can go that has the similar benefits of being a US citizen and the environment we enjoy I'm honesty surprised that in 2021 people still believe the US is the only good place to live/be a citizen.

>I'm honesty surprised that in 2021 people still believe the US is the only good place to live/be a citizen. There are lots of great places to live but the US is one of the best and easiest places to live if you're a US citizen. Unless a person's native country is a legitimately bad place to live, living where you are born is going be one of the best options for anyone. There are lots of good places in the world to l…

This is all just Theorie or personal. I know plenty people that moved country (including myself) that face none of these issues and have no interest moving back ever. My quality of life is better, jobs are better, moving was not hard either.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#175

Post by stjohnswarts »

gampleman wrote: post #160

I'm surprised to not see too much discussion about GDPR here. But the question I have is under what legal basis do companies use the tracking identifiers? Surely the only legal basis available to them is consent? So Apple has kindly made the consent collection infrastructure part of iOS (and therefore standardised and therefore user friendly). So are the complaints about Apple forcing them to obey the law? That seems…

I just don't think that there are that many Europeans on HN percentage wise.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#176

Post by xvector »

soraminazuki wrote: post #51
xvector wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously. But just because Apple is in it for themselves doesn’t mean that their customers can’t also benefit. Clearly, it’s mutually beneficial - customers get privacy-focused devices, and Apple gets money from people that care about privacy. All that said, the level of privacy Apple offers in any of its devices is superficial at best. There are way more problems Apple needs to solve before any of its devices can b…

> Your IP still gives away your location, apps can remember if they were installed on your phone, you can’t turn off network or sensors for individual apps, etc. I agree with your last point, but the first two is asking for the impossible. You'd need multiple technological breakthroughs for that to happen.

> You'd need multiple technological breakthroughs for that to happen.

For (1), at the very least, Apple could provide a VPN by default.

For (2), why is this the case? Apple mostly just needs to delete content from the Keychain for deleted apps and throw a wrench into some APIs used for fingerprinting.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#177

Post by herbst »

trapped wrote: post #35
Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

How do you suggest any corporation to not cooperate with government agencies? For US based businesses it's illegal, right? And, how's this Apple's problem or fault? Vote and elect your interest. If you live in democratic country then vote and elect sensible smart honest representatives who will protect your interest.

That's not exactly the point tho. I live in an actually democratic country where the government respects my privacy. However apple is not respecting my rights or privacy when I would use their devices. Ergo this whole thread is bullshit as they can't even protect any privacy from the state they operate in in their situation.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#178

Post by spoonjim »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #172
spoonjim wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s basically impossible for an American company to defy the American government. They can try in court but ultimately the government has F-22s and nuclear weapons and Apple does not.

This is completely untrue. Tell me the last time the US government used nukes and F22s on a company lmao. You always have courts and laws.

All laws are backed by the threat of overwhelming violence. If you have a corporate fine, and you don’t pay it, the state will seize your property. If you stand in your doorway and obstruct the sheriff, he will arrest you. If you resist the arrest with weapons, he will bring his own weapons. If you have enough weapons to require a military response, a military response is what you will get.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#179

Post by chevill »

herbst wrote: post #174
chevill wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm honesty surprised that in 2021 people still believe the US is the only good place to live/be a citizen. There are lots of great places to live but the US is one of the best and easiest places to live if you're a US citizen. Unless a person's native country is a legitimately bad place to live, living where you are born is going be one of the best options for anyone. There are lots of good places in the world to l…

This is all just Theorie or personal. I know plenty people that moved country (including myself) that face none of these issues and have no interest moving back ever. My quality of life is better, jobs are better, moving was not hard either.

>This is all just Theorie or personal.

It depends on where you go, your specific circumstances, etc. Its an objective fact that not every wealthy/safe country has open borders or easy immigration. Not all of these places pay tech workers anywhere near what they could make in other places, even adjusting for inflation and cost of living. Its also objectively true that not every such country welcomes outsiders with open arms, gives them equal opportunities, and allows them to become part of the community.

As an example Japan is a beautiful country and seems like it would be a good place to live, but they have a process for immigration that involves a points system. If you don't naturally have enough points from your education/experiences you can do some kind of charity work or get involved with various things that contribute to Japan. But from reading about the process it doesn't seem like I would be guaranteed a visa just because I apply.

I'm sure there are many places that do all of these things right. But I wasn't intending to make a universal statement to scare people away from it. I'm just saying that to a person that's thinking about it, those are all concerns that need to be explored before moving. And its also partially an explanation for why some of us stay.

Since you and your friends have had good experiences, can you recommend some countries to look into?

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#180

Post by thefz »

landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

Two major critiques:

1- Privacy should be the default, free as in beer, not a pay-per option

2- Apple is all willing to break its own encryption to cooperate with law enforcement. See the recent example https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/17/sci_hub_apple_fbi_cla...

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