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If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

theguardian.com

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Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#161

Post by egocentric »

actuator wrote: post #41

This is not true. As I have submitted on HN earlier, Apple is using the purchases data to customise ads. https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT208477 You can make a case that the ad targeting is just on App Store, News and Stocks but that is just for now, Apple used to have an ad platform iAd which wasn't that successful, so it was discontinued. Once they milk other revenue streams and are more of a monopolistic power in…

If you could please elaborate, what did the tweet say and who exactly was it by?

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#162

Post by TheManInThePub »

0xPIT wrote: post #150

I truly wonder why people still believe they have any privacy, any right to privacy, or, that they could do anything about it. Sun Microsystems‘ Scott McNealy was vocal about this already in the late 1990s: „you have no privacy, get over it“ Look, even if you were able to get FAANG et al. to honor privacy, there will always be the one player that does not. Then, the people who write privacy laws have no clue what the…

> I truly wonder why people still believe they have any privacy, any right to privacy, or, that they could do anything about it.

The GDPR (very good legislation forming one of our rights to privacy), and a host of UK/Europe national Data Protection Acts preceding it would take issue with this statement.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#163

Post by okamiueru »

procombo wrote: post #155
okamiueru wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at the same time, MacOS phones home every time you run anything, and logs exactly what you ran, on what you ran it, and where you ran it. Inb4: "This isn't a privacy issue, it's a security feature".

It's a great read. Why not link to it? https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/

To be completely honest, I was about to, but got distracted. Thanks for linking it.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#164

Post by okamiueru »

bni wrote: post #159
okamiueru wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at the same time, MacOS phones home every time you run anything, and logs exactly what you ran, on what you ran it, and where you ran it. Inb4: "This isn't a privacy issue, it's a security feature".

I think the distinction nowadays is what happens with the data after it has been collected. We are way past data being collected.

Running on linux, with software I can to a fairly large extent control, I beg to differ. This is also the default, and not some crazy power-user iptables/proxy filter shenaningans either.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#165

Post by procombo »

joemi wrote: post #151
procombo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer and shareholder I expect Apple to provide both security and choice. Apple regularly uses security to justify eliminating choice. Which if you're paying attention isn't always true in every circumstance --so then I'd assert the motivation isn't coming from a place wholesome to the consumer. Apple says I bought their device so I should follow their patterns. I disagree. Think Different. Having additional…

> Having additional marketplaces available for me doesn't affect you. The comment you said this in reply to talked about how it affects _everyone_ both using the platform and developing for the platform.

You mean the bit about pirated software? Nope. Just a classic feeder line Apple gives to developers as a scare tactic. 30% is likely a heck of a lot more than what a canned c&d letter costs to get a pirated app removed from a trusted/authenticated app store variant.

Truth is Apple doesn't want competition for their large cut of "advertising/distribution" revenue.

If I develop an app for my existing customers and I want to support their device (Apple in this case) I have to agree to give Apple a 30% cut. Apple wouldn't have provided any direct service here for an unlisted app. I'm willing to host it and provide any merchant and billing support for it. I told my customer how to install my app. Apple's App Store wouldn't be providing any "distribution" services as it were (which as I understand is where historically the 30% rate originated --for that they should be paying for all my hosting and logistics).

I want to pay $100/year for Apple to verify my identity and make sure I'm not malware. That's all. In this universe I really don't even have an interest in using their closed-source compiler, or have to keep up with their programming language, but I do it cause it makes the numbers work.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#166

Post by alex_smart »

landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

>None of them have any altruistic motives either, so I can only conclude that they either don't want my money or they're really bad at what they do?

That's a non sequitur.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#167

Post by Google234 »

willis936 wrote: post #112
M4v3R wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? They specifically say they do not collect any of your biometrics. Touch ID and Face ID data is stored in an encrypted form on the Secure Enclave chip and never leaves your device.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/apple-health-studies/en-...

Wait, what is your problem with this? Who the hell would enroll in a scientific study to share their data and not expect their data to be used in that study?

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#168

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

The idea that a company can "sell" privacy is completely fabricated by those who are collecting vast amounts of data about users.

Revenue-producing mass data collection by "tech" companies creates a "privacy" issue. Is the solution to "sell" privacy. Of course not. Data collection makes more money. That is why "tech" companies offer so many things to users for "free". There would be little or no money to be made in selling these things, relative to using them as fronts for data collection and surveillance.

Apple does not try to claim, "We make no money from collecting data on Apple customers." Instead they claim they protect customers' privacy from other companies, who also want to collect data on Apple customers.

When Apple itself stops collecting data about users, only then can I start to consider Cook's claims that the issue of privacy is so important. At present, Apple's actions do not match its statements. There is no privacy from Apple and the company has built datacanters to hold vast amounts of private data collected from customers.

These companies have certainly swooned some, judging by the comments I see on HN, into believing they must make "tradeoffs". How did we reach a point where anyone could believe that a company who is collecting vast amounts of data on users of its products is some sort of privacy crusader or privacy merchant. Anyone who cared about privacy would not be doing surveillance and data collection.

The only answer I can come up with is that these people who cannot see any alternative besides "tradeoffs" were born into a world of where companies were already engaged in dragnet data collection from the internet as a "business", and they never saw what the internet was like before this nonsense began. They honestly do not know what a reasonable level of "privacy" is because they never had it.

The idea of "paying for privacy" is no different than paying protection money to a mafia or paying ransom to a ransomware group. The solution is to stop the wrongful behaviour, not to make payments to the organisations that are engaged in it.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#169

Post by slver »

emptysongglass wrote: post #152
slver wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store has double the revenue of Play Store despite Play Store serving a much bigger audience (more Android phones) and having the same 15%/30% cut as the App Store. This directly means the Play Store is a lot less used by its users. They buy way less from it relative to App Store. You can attribute this to less trust, or more piracy, more likely both. In part because of this, Play Store is less funded, and less r…

> App Store has double the revenue of Play Store despite Play Store serving a much bigger audience (more Android phones) and having the same 15%/30% cut as the App Store. This directly means the Play Store is a lot less used by its users. They buy way less from it relative to App Store. > You can attribute this to less trust, or more piracy, more likely both. I don't attribute it to either: it's pure demographics. Ap…

> Nobody is asking for the destruction of anything, that's pure hyperbole. Opening up a marketplace in which you are both a participant and controller is not "destruction". It's what's fair for everyone.

Apple creates the hardware and the OS. No matter what they do, even if you crucify Tim Cook, they'll never be considered equal to some random guy with a Mac who submits their app to the store, for as long as they made the hardware and the OS. Which they have to do. So this "it needs to be fair" argument is simply a backdoor for Apple to make greater and greater concessions over their control of the ecosystem, until there's no control over the ecosystem.

But the ecosystem needs control. Countries need governments. Employees need bosses. And so on. Fair doesn't mean everyone is the same. We can't all be the same. Systems don't work this way.

"Fairness" is always contextual, and it's always a deliberate decision. It's not a default. Apple has created a system that's fair in some aspects, to some people, in the interest of the whole.

So you need to find another argument here.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#170

Post by stjohnswarts »

jhanschoo wrote: post #100
landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

The relevance of criticism on Apple's privacy stance is in pointing out the limits of Apple's commitment to privacy. Companies like Signal are founded on privacy and encryption, but with Apple, privacy is a nice-to-have, limited to its other business objectives (like how Apple is "committed" to reducing waste to the extent it can sell dongles, chargers, and earbuds separately, but not in terms of repairability). You…

Yes but the privacy people need to be less angry about it and life in general. When signal makes a phone I will certainly consider it. Until then Apple is the only game that really makes sense that is still mainstream and usable without having to accept a bunch of bugs and subpar performance.
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