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If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

theguardian.com

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Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#121

Post by naresh_xai »

actuator wrote: post #85
spacedcowboy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've chosen to buy something from Apple, it's hard for Apple not to know that you've bought it. I don't think that's an issue. What is an issue is the cross-correlation of any given company's data on you with lots of other "big data" companies, building a profile, not just of what you've bought from X, but from Y, Z, hell throw in the whole alphabet, why not ? Then there's the machine learning that says when X,Y…

As far as I read the support doc, it seems like if say I purchase an ebook from a third party App, should Apple have this data because they mandated the forced use of their payment system. (I don't like user profiles based on purchase data from their store itself as well) In this example, Apple is not just the store but also your payment processor(a forced one at that). So, they know about which cuts of meat you like…

But apple does not allow for that. So in that sense, they do not allow businesses for targeted advertisement. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Their processes and org structure is not built for that either with siloed teams. So much that quite often some teams will not know what kind of data is being collected by other teams even.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#122

Post by Apocryphon »

supernova87a wrote: post #65
Synaesthesia wrote: post #17

There's still a huge elephant in the room. How are we supposed to trust Apple, Microsoft or any other tech company when it emerged that they fully cooperated with the NSA and their PRISM program. We have to just assume that's still running. Businesses could keep a lot of secrets from us and they're not transparent or accountable to the public.

Look, if you're worried about that, I don't know how you get through life without being totally paralyzed. You live in the USA. All persons and companies are subject to whatever intelligence activities that we got a glimpse of which are happening. You adjust your life accordingly and live on. Because I don't know where else you can go that has the similar benefits of being a US citizen and the environment we enjoy. O…

Well, that's just rank defeatism.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#123

Post by pmontra »

IntelMiner wrote: post #90
igornadj wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree, and would love to see a competitor to Apple in terms of privacy focus. I think the reason we don't see it from competitors is that Apple is years ahead of everyone else in terms of customer experience, and privacy is part of that experience, so they focus on it. You just have to look at how many different models of phones Samsung sell vs how many Apple sell to see how unfocused Apple's biggest com…

>the reason we don't see it from competitors is that Apple is years ahead of everyone else in terms of customer experience If I might offer a less glowing perspective Apple is a highly vertically integrated company unlike anybody else in the "top end" of SV. They don't "need" your data Facebook only exists as a website, so of course they want to data mine you to death, use psychological tricks to keep your eyeballs s…

To add to your point: Apple uses privacy as a weapon against the other FAANGs. When they add adblock software they reduce the bottom line of their competitors. Less resources for Google and Facebook is eventually more money for Apple.

However the point of GP still stands: people can take advantage of Apple tactics and probably enjoy more privacy by default.

Personally I'm not using Apple devices for a number of reasons and I still believe I'm OK with my privacy because of a number of precautions. Most of them are out of the reach of non tech people, but given that I'm a tech person I can avoid to buy from Apple and still give as little data as possible to Google and Facebook.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#124

Post by jraph »

trapped wrote: post #81
threatofrain wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The willingness to pay big for privacy is a signal that you are an interesting person to track.

Privacy is fundamental human right. Don't need to be interesting person.

Indeed. I don't have anything special (in my current world / country) to hide, but I still want to hide it.

It tells one bit about us: that we are privacy conscious. Nothing else really.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#125

Post by naresh_xai »

slver wrote: post #103
emptysongglass wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that we already know what that landscape looks like on Android and... it's fine. Everyone still uses the Play Store.

App Store has double the revenue of Play Store despite Play Store serving a much bigger audience (more Android phones) and having the same 15%/30% cut as the App Store. This directly means the Play Store is a lot less used by its users. They buy way less from it relative to App Store. You can attribute this to less trust, or more piracy, more likely both. In part because of this, Play Store is less funded, and less r…

If revenue was more in a non-Apple ecosystem, would it not be the case that devs would all move to a non-Apple ecosystem.

Android also has the problem that users are far less likely to be as educated (since target audience is not white collar but blue collar) and far less likely to report problems, issues or malware. So I'd even take the reported values to be lower than what the actual case is.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#126

Post by thejackgoode »

I am somehow seeing this as a good/evil cycle -- Google and Amazon, even Facebook at times used to be the good guys. Now Apple and Microsoft are getting higher on the horse. It may revert eventually, I assume "don't be evil" is counter-incentivised by many things.

But now the most interesting thing to me is if FB/Google really are pushed by this privacy narrative to change their business model.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#127

Post by procombo »

slver wrote: post #103
emptysongglass wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that we already know what that landscape looks like on Android and... it's fine. Everyone still uses the Play Store.

App Store has double the revenue of Play Store despite Play Store serving a much bigger audience (more Android phones) and having the same 15%/30% cut as the App Store. This directly means the Play Store is a lot less used by its users. They buy way less from it relative to App Store. You can attribute this to less trust, or more piracy, more likely both. In part because of this, Play Store is less funded, and less r…

As a consumer and shareholder I expect Apple to provide both security and choice.

Apple regularly uses security to justify eliminating choice. Which if you're paying attention isn't always true in every circumstance --so then I'd assert the motivation isn't coming from a place wholesome to the consumer.

Apple says I bought their device so I should follow their patterns. I disagree. Think Different.

Having additional marketplaces available for me doesn't affect you.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#128

Post by theshrike79 »

kart23 wrote: post #91
theshrike79 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good stack of Apple's ecosystem is fully encrypted, so that Apple can't give anything to the authorities. For example: Apple Maps retrieves routes in segments, with changing identifiers. Apple can't figure out where you navigated to.

This is laughable. Your icloud data is in the cloud, your imessage (if you choose to backup) is in the cloud, they have the keys, and they give that data to the authorities. And why should apple even BE storing my navigation history on their servers? You can even read their policies for yourself. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...

Google knows exactly where you have been, how you got there and where you visited and for how long. They use all of this data for their own purposes.

Apple actively tries not to know any of that as much as possible.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#129

Post by theturtletalks »

jhanschoo wrote: post #100
landryraccoon wrote: post #25

I see a bunch of comments talking about how Apple is being self serving and not at all altruistic when they defend our privacy. And my response is - well duh. And this is supposed to be a problem how? Apple wants my money and nothing else. They aren't motivated to protect my privacy out of the goodness of their hearts. I am happy to pay money for more privacy. The fact that they only do this because they want my mone…

The relevance of criticism on Apple's privacy stance is in pointing out the limits of Apple's commitment to privacy. Companies like Signal are founded on privacy and encryption, but with Apple, privacy is a nice-to-have, limited to its other business objectives (like how Apple is "committed" to reducing waste to the extent it can sell dongles, chargers, and earbuds separately, but not in terms of repairability). You…

Apple's marketing is quite genius. They spun iOS being a closed system into a plus.

You can't install your own apps. Safari is not fit for PWAs. Repairability is not encouraged. All of this is for your own benefit and privacy. Want those things? Go to Android and sacrifice your privacy.

With this approach, Apple comes out looking privacy-focused, justified for their App Store fees, and their stance on right to repair.

I'm not educated enough to know if those restrictions are absolutely needed for privacy or privacy is a blanket excuse for how Apple operates.

Re: If Apple is the only organisation defending our privacy, it is time to worry

#130

Post by SilverRed »

trapped wrote: post #81
threatofrain wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The willingness to pay big for privacy is a signal that you are an interesting person to track.

Privacy is fundamental human right. Don't need to be interesting person.

I think the point is that it signals someone with a lot of money since they can spend hundreds on something they could live without.
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