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Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

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Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#701

Post by mark_l_watson »

I will have the minority opinion here: I love having at least two Linux laptops (not to mention servers) to play with and configure just how I want them.

I also want my Apple devices to be locked down (security wise) - secure and sort-of privacy enhanced digital appliances for research programming, writing my books, and as part of my personal digital life.

I know that it can be rough on iOS and macOS devs, but I buy apps, and hopefully the extra hassles are compensated by making sufficient money.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#702

Post by _delirium »

mcphage wrote: post #677
erikpukinskis wrote: post #613

The only aspect of the Apple App Store that strikes me as truly anticompetitive is their prohibition on adjusting prices to include Apple’s fees, or even to tell the user what they are. I can accept that Apple can demand a 30% fee for billing customers on their devices. And I can accept that they would prohibit installation/sales of software any other way. But I should be allowed to mark up the price by 30% and then…

> their prohibition on adjusting prices to include Apple’s fees I believe that credit card processors include this policy as well. Otherwise, I’m sure a lot more places would offer a discount if you pay by cash.

That was historically the case, but allowing merchants to offer cash discounts is protected under U.S. federal law since 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durbin_amendment. Around me, only gas stations and liquor stores seem to commonly offer such discounts though.

What's less settled is whether businesses can charge credit-card customers a CC surcharge to pass on the fees. Economic theory would consider this functionally the same as offering a cash discount, but it differs in calling out the CC fee as a line item charge. Some state laws prohibit that, and they've been tied up in litigation, e.g. this mostly inconclusive 2017 Supreme Court ruling that kicked the question back down to lower courts: https://www.scotusblog.com/2017/03/opinion-analysis-justices...

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#703

Post by Google234 »

oblio wrote: post #457
5560675260 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you've asked if it's possible, not if it's practical and convenient under any circumstances.

I can't edit my comment. Console vendors don't envision consoles as general computing devices, which kind of tends to end any sparky comments one might make on the topic.

Apple also doesn’t envision that you can run arbitrary root code on an iPhone either

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#704

Post by calsy »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #561
calsy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers have no leverage because there are no alternatives. What can they do, take their apps and leave the store?

Yes, and if that does not work, then the situation is that not only does each developer need Apple more than Apple needs each developer, but that developers in general need Apple more than Apple needs developers. Which would contradict the claim that developers are having to pay outsize fees compared to their relevance to Apple’s business.

Yeah maybe in the land of make believe where developers kill their apps, their user base and their profit on principle.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#705

Post by calsy »

adflux wrote: post #77
calsy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers have no leverage because there are no alternatives. What can they do, take their apps and leave the store?

Do you think the same about paying taxes?

That reference makes no sense.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#706

Post by calsy »

shadowgovt wrote: post #106
calsy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers have no leverage because there are no alternatives. What can they do, take their apps and leave the store?

Release on Android only.

The idea of halving your potential customer reach sounds so appealing.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#707

Post by josephcsible »

tmp231 wrote: post #691
josephcsible wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is that this isn't just about end-users. Apple is being unfair to developers too, and just leaving iOS isn't a viable choice for them. Apple has a 50% market share in the US, so any American company who cut ties with them would instantly lose half of their customer base, since most people won't buy a new phone over a single app.

You act like it’s the developers fault that they hitched their wagon to apple. They knew going in with eyes wide open what the deal is. They can always leave en masse to Android if they feel the deal is not fair.

Yes, they knew going in how unfair Apple is, but they knew the alternative, being shut out from half of their customers, was worse. And are you really suggesting that all app developers need to form a cartel to level the playing field with Apple? If not, how do you suppose they all leave en masse, rather than some staying behind to steal the market share the others left behind?

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#708

Post by lostgame »

jjk166 wrote: post #674
madeofpalk wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the userbase is there because of the apps. Let’s not pretend Apple doesn’t also benefit from having apps in its store and on its phone.

Seems like they should work together and find some equitable way to split the profits. Perhaps 30/70?

No thanks, but 15/85 sounds more reasonable. :)

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#709

Post by exporectomy »

cs2733 wrote: post #37
exporectomy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes less freedom is a good thing. It frees the customer's mind to let an organization they trust make the tedious product evaluations for you. We do it all the time with retail shopping where we enjoy the curated decisions of the shop's owner instead of a giant bazaar.

I'm with you on this... and then remember the many useful tools that are only available outside the app store. BTW, Have you seen the app store catalog for macOS on apple silicon? Still very sparse. Trusting one company to provide the whole stack is not necessarily practical, even for the average user.

If your phone is a central part of your IT job (you mention tools), then you need flexibility. But if you're like me any just use it as a phone, casual web browser, and messenger device, freedom is no value. I'm confident all the basic important stuff will be available and if it's not, I don't really care anyway. I don't want to have to think about or manage my phone. I want it to just do its basic job and get out of my way. I think a lot of people are like this.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#710

Post by hpaavola »

paulmd wrote: post #531
hpaavola wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not in apple appstore neither, so clearly the reason is not the fact that non-playstore apps can be installed.

fortnite was in the app store until epic game's account was terminated for terms-of-service violations, so whatever point you're trying to make here isn't correct. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53955183

The original argument was that 3rd party appstores would somehow affect the main appstore quality. And that argument is bs as Android demonstrates. So, please read the discussion and only comment once you understand the topic.
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