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Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

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Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#671

Post by tshaddox »

Aeolun wrote: post #610
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually happened more than once. Perhaps the person you were replying to was lying; doesn't make their point valid, because it has actually happened. People can follow the most complicated step by step instructions if they're explained clearly enough, by someone they feel they don't need to trust , and there's an incentive to follow them.

If grandma ignores my advice and installs the unsafe app despite the steadily more large and screaming warnings doesn’t that become individual responsibility at some point?

You’re free to argue that, but my guess is that Apple actually cares about customer satisfaction regardless of who you or anyone else decides to blame for any particular instance of dissatisfaction.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#672

Post by matheusmoreira »

cmorgan31 wrote: post #635
nwallin wrote: post #629

I will not buy any device that does not give me control of the device. If I can't sideload apps, can't install a 3rd party store, do not have the ability to root my own device, I won't buy it. Apple has decided that's not allowed, fine, I won't buy their product. That's between Apple and their customers. But it is certifiably insane that Apple thinks they have the right to dictate to Epic what Epic charges for its ap…

So they don’t get to be on iOS. I’d leave ethics and morals out of this convo since neither side has anyone’s interest but their own. Sounds like you already found a solution to this court case - don’t buy Apple if you want to tinker with your hardware. I’m shocked that is news to anyone. I’m shocked so many of us want to dictate what the rest of us have as the status quo because it doesn’t align with your feelings a…

> don’t buy Apple if you want to tinker with your hardware

Apple makes good hardware. I should be able to buy an Apple device and use my own software on it.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#673

Post by matheusmoreira »

newsbinator wrote: post #632
nwallin wrote: post #629

I will not buy any device that does not give me control of the device. If I can't sideload apps, can't install a 3rd party store, do not have the ability to root my own device, I won't buy it. Apple has decided that's not allowed, fine, I won't buy their product. That's between Apple and their customers. But it is certifiably insane that Apple thinks they have the right to dictate to Epic what Epic charges for its ap…

It’s still unclear to me why Apple should have any limits in what rules they set for their store. Don’t publishers have the option to skip Apple’s store and sell in other ones? I mean this isn’t price gouging generators during a winter storm. This is video games and apps. What stops publishers from simply shrugging, walking away, and letting Apple users miss out?

> It’s still unclear to me why Apple should have any limits in what rules they set for their store.

It's an exploitative monopoly. That's more than enough reason to place severe limits on it.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#674

Post by jjk166 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #615
grey_earthling wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're paying for access to their userbase.

And the userbase is there because of the apps. Let’s not pretend Apple doesn’t also benefit from having apps in its store and on its phone.

Seems like they should work together and find some equitable way to split the profits. Perhaps 30/70?

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#675

Post by perryizgr8 »

maccard wrote: post #41
hpaavola wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I hope multiple App Stores don’t become a thing on iOS. The reason I like iPhone is that I am assured that apps I download from App Store are not shit and curated by Apple." Then dont install those other app stores and only rely on apples curated list, if other app stores ever become a thing on ios.

The reality of what ends up happening is you end up with an app store per publisher, and needing to manage your payment details with each one individually, and deal with each stores handling of your data. I don't want to install the NYT store to download the nyt cooking app so they can take a bigger cut on their subscription. The reason this hasn't happened on Android is because you get a scary warning when you insta…

> I don't want to install the NYT store to download the nyt cooking app so they can take a bigger cut on their subscription.

Then don't. Nobody is forcing you. That's what this is all about, not forcing people.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#676

Post by perryizgr8 »

crazygringo wrote: post #165
wccrawford wrote: post #4

Other news on this has quotes from Tim Cook saying that they'd have to find a way to track purchases on IOS and bill developers so that Apple still gets their cut when using other payment processors. For me, this is way over the line. If they want to charge developers to be on their store, fine. I don't have a problem with that. And charging for using them as a payment processor makes sense. Charging for using Apple…

Unfortunately, Apple has to maintain this rule because otherwise developers will implement workarounds to avoid charging in the App Store altogether. Remember when eBay charged a commission on the sale price but not shipping? Suddenly $50 items became $1 with $49 shipping -- so eBay had to charge the commission on the shipping too even though it didn't seem "fair". Same here -- every app would turn free, and charge t…

> otherwise developers will implement workarounds to avoid charging in the App Store altogether

That's fine. Apple have this amazing review system that is really thorough and that is funded by every single developer paying into it. That's the main reason Apple considers their store to be so safe and useful for customers.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#677

Post by mcphage »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #613

The only aspect of the Apple App Store that strikes me as truly anticompetitive is their prohibition on adjusting prices to include Apple’s fees, or even to tell the user what they are. I can accept that Apple can demand a 30% fee for billing customers on their devices. And I can accept that they would prohibit installation/sales of software any other way. But I should be allowed to mark up the price by 30% and then…

> their prohibition on adjusting prices to include Apple’s fees

I believe that credit card processors include this policy as well. Otherwise, I’m sure a lot more places would offer a discount if you pay by cash.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#678

Post by Karunamon »

cmorgan31 wrote: post #642
Karunamon wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well.. you could still limit certain APIs to official "app store" signatures, and in fact I guarantee that Apple will take this tactic and it will take further legal wrangling to deal with the overstepping they will no doubt do. And on a more base level, Apple has overplayed their hand for far too long for me to be very sympathetic to their arguments. The app store is still loaded with scams, they still deny things f…

Do you believe any large store front acts in good faith? You are inviting less privacy into the room at the expense of money for other people. It’s a bit crazy that we think Apple would somehow be able to limit cross app tracking after being forced to allow side loading and independent app stores. Hey let’s make this one bad actor allow in the rest! It’s not fair that they get to make the rules for the rest of us, we…

What I am inviting into the room is the ability of people to run what they wish on hardware that belongs to them. This argument that general purpose devices used by an appreciable amount of the general public must be arbitrarily locked down and beholden entirely to the arbitrary, often greed-based whims of multinational, multi-billion-dollar tech corporations because tech-illiterate grown-ass adults might hurt themselves on sharp edges is both paternalistic and offensive, and I'm really quite over it.

Make the unlocking process something equivalent to rooting a modern android device (something that requires PC software, terminal commands, a number of steps on the phone, and a data wipe - i.e. something absolutely nobody will do accidentally and vanishingly few will do just because Facebook told them to) and both concerns are allayed.

This isn't some dichotomy, and treating it as such is playing right into the hands of the tech corps. This "for your own protection" thing is marketing. We already know that no principles are in play. Besides, mitigating forced obsolescence (and so, e-waste, carbon footprint, etc) is more important than Facebook getting another data point from a minority of users, and this can be addressed legislatively anyways.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#679

Post by jjk166 »

Aeolun wrote: post #610
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually happened more than once. Perhaps the person you were replying to was lying; doesn't make their point valid, because it has actually happened. People can follow the most complicated step by step instructions if they're explained clearly enough, by someone they feel they don't need to trust , and there's an incentive to follow them.

If grandma ignores my advice and installs the unsafe app despite the steadily more large and screaming warnings doesn’t that become individual responsibility at some point?

And when grandma gives all of her retirement money to scammers by hitting the wrong button, she will get her rightful comeuppance dying on the street instead of taking up your guest bedroom.

In the real world, avoiding mistakes is more important than people suffering the consequences of mistakes.

Re: Tim Cook’s Fortnite trial testimony was unexpectedly revealing

#680

Post by conk »

mjthompson wrote: post #634
erikpukinskis wrote: post #613

The only aspect of the Apple App Store that strikes me as truly anticompetitive is their prohibition on adjusting prices to include Apple’s fees, or even to tell the user what they are. I can accept that Apple can demand a 30% fee for billing customers on their devices. And I can accept that they would prohibit installation/sales of software any other way. But I should be allowed to mark up the price by 30% and then…

Apple's use of its own market power on its store to regulate conduct on other markets is deeply concerning. Another example is Apple ID. If I use Google or Facebook SSO in my app, I have to offer Apple SSO alongside it. That is okay. However Apple will refuse the app into the App Store if I don't also offer Apple ID login on desktop and Android platforms. Apple should keep its nose in its own business.

If a user chooses to sign up using Apple’s SSO, how are they supposed to also use your desktop or other apps if those don’t also support Apple SSO?
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