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Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

carlchenet.com

51–60 of 114 posts

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#51
post #22

To send 4k emails a month a 1€/month VPS running Exim is enough and takes 1h to set up. The real advantage is to have control over your own infrastructure and ensure the privacy of your reader base. The drawback is having to monitor blocklists and the reputation of your server IP address.

Deliverability is a thing. When most of your list recipients are on gmail, this is a good way to end up in spam for all of them. People who believe this is a viable method to reach the inboxes of thousands of gmail users have never tried.

Sadly, this says more about how broken GMail now is than anything else.

Real Soon Now(TM), the tech community needs to start a serious campaign to shame and isolate email providers that do not reliably deliver legitimate emails, regardless of how high profile they are. It probably needs meaningful government/regulator backing to get anywhere. The odd false positive on spam/malware filtering is understandable, it's not a perfect science, but the reality today is that a lot of these services simply don't work properly and the unreliability is probably causing some degree of damage to huge numbers of people and businesses. Email is far too important for far too many things to let the reliability continue to degrade according to the arbitrary whims of a few large mail services and to permit oligopoly effects to lock new or small-time providers out of the system almost entirely.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#52

500€ is 5 hours of labor. If you are skilled and everything works right away you may only spend 2 hours on the self-maintained solution which means you save 3 hours or in other words … nothing. You also have to maintain/update the system, maybe spend time teaching other people. It’s not worth the effort. If you don’t have expert knowledge in the required tools/services, it will take much longer than 5 hours to set up…

> 500€ is 5 hours of labor.

It's not, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27259000.

> You also have to maintain/update the system, maybe spend time teaching other people.

I think it's just one person running a newletter, so I don't think teaching other people is a thing here.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#53
post #9

This doesn't sound like a good deal for the average business with zero experiencing managing their mail. One spam block and you're done, you'll spend at least a week dealing with that.

Honestly everyone could spam block mailchimp and their email experience would improve.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To send 4k emails a month a 1€/month VPS running Exim is enough and takes 1h to set up. You can use a VPS for web projects. For e-mail you'd want a dedicated server with a separate IP that is going to cost you €40/month. Yes it may take 1h to set up, but gaining reputation takes time - you definitely won't be able to reach all recipients within one hour of purchasing the server.

No VPS has a shared IP address. The real problem is that the pool may have been dirtied by previous customers. But once you get a clean IP you can keep it for as long as you keep the service running. I sent emails from a VPS for years without issues. I stopped purely because Fastmail had better software and cheaper storage.

Hopefully as IPv6 takes over, the contamination effect due to some unknown party who might once have used the same IP address will become less of an issue. Although you have to wonder whether the kind of big mail service that will swing the blacklist axe first and probably not ask questions later with IPv4 addresses is just going to start blocking entire service provider ranges with IPv6 to counter that, causing the same problems for legitimate senders with new systems anyway.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#55
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not eveyone earns 100€ an hour, especially in Europe. The newsletter has a French name ("Le courrier du Hacker"), and in France 45/50k€ a year is a good salary. That's around 14/15€ an hour. Which means ~33 hours a year of maintenance.

There are many ways to measure the cost of something like this, but a blind look at average salaries is probably the worst. It doesn't factor in overhead or opportunity cost. In most companies, having a developer spend a week on maintenance of a system which isn't a core business value doesn't make sense. They would be much better utilized on value added work. I guarantee you most engineers could delivery way more th…

As I said here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27259123 this isn't a company, it's a newsletter so more of something like a side project. I don't think you could deliver more than 500€ of savings in a week because the email costs were the main costs. I agree with you than within a company this would be different, but this isn't a company.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#56

I know that one of the very hard problems with automating email is not landing in the spam folder. I always had the impression that using services like Mailchimp make that much less likely than doing it DIY on top of a more commodity transport like SES. I.e. they stay on top of and evolve with best practices over time so you don't have to. Is that in any way accurate?

The problem is that you actually are spamming. Almost no one wants the junk that comes out of mailchimp. It’s just they are big and powerful enough to get their spam in inboxes rather than the spam box where it belongs.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#57

I know that one of the very hard problems with automating email is not landing in the spam folder. I always had the impression that using services like Mailchimp make that much less likely than doing it DIY on top of a more commodity transport like SES. I.e. they stay on top of and evolve with best practices over time so you don't have to. Is that in any way accurate?

I used to use Pardot ( B2B marketing software) at work, which is miles ahead of MailChimp. While there are certain things you can't do by default (e.g. email to info@domain.com,etc) , the spam filters are still kind of blackbox,so the content can have a huge play in addition to marketing software server's reputation,etc.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#58

For most reasonable applications that is basically a great advertisement for mailchimp, Eg if you rolled your own solution you’d only save eur 500 a year before accounting for the build and maintenance of your solution.

If you're in the EU you're also saving the GDPR fines. And the author probably saved 500 euros a year on a basic plan. But if you're on the top end plan you would save tens of thousands.

I don’t think GDPR is applicable to private individuals running a newsletter..

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#59

I know that one of the very hard problems with automating email is not landing in the spam folder. I always had the impression that using services like Mailchimp make that much less likely than doing it DIY on top of a more commodity transport like SES. I.e. they stay on top of and evolve with best practices over time so you don't have to. Is that in any way accurate?

I moved my mailing list (all explicit subscribes, plaintext content) from Mailchimp to an SES-based solution in part for better handling of plaintext email, which is a total afterthought for most of these tools. Since the switch I have experienced minor hard rejection problems with SES that I didn't before, primarily with Apple Mail and rarely with gmail as well. I wouldn't say it's been a huge problem for me, in par…

"primarily with Apple Mail"

We started having this recently when sending quotations to customers. We ended up sending attached PDFs instead,so Apple Mail won't complain anymore. It can be either content or how the domain is setup,still not sure to this day.

Re: Switching from Mailchimp to open-source Mailtrain and AWS SES

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the EU you're also saving the GDPR fines. And the author probably saved 500 euros a year on a basic plan. But if you're on the top end plan you would save tens of thousands.

What GDPR fines are those, specifically?

Mail chimp stores it’s data in the us and German courts found that it breached GDPR because of US spy laws.
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