One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks • Hacker News Board

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#61

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

slver wrote: post #54

bogwog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple can do a lot to make their hardware more repairable. But also I've seen Rossman outright demand their hardware changes just so it's easier to repair, without regard to things like weight, water resistance, and overall UX. Source? He released a video recently where he basically said that it doesn’t matter if they’re easy to repair. As technology gets more advanced, so do repair shops. It’ll be harder for the a…

> He released a video recently where he basically said that it doesn’t matter if they’re easy to repair. As technology gets more advanced, so do repair shops. > It’ll be harder for the average Joe at home, but that’s precisely why independent repair shops that can offer competitive prices are so important. So you'd really recommend that Joe at home should repair their own Windows laptop or Android phone? Sorry but "g…

> So you'd really recommend that Joe at home should repair their own Windows laptop or Android phone?

>> As technology gets more advanced, so do repair shops. It’ll be harder for the average Joe at home, but that’s precisely why independent repair shops that can offer competitive prices are so important.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#62

Post by YetAnotherNick » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

tcoff91 wrote: post #53

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #2

Rossmann is seriously a national treasure. Along with Lex Fridman the two Youtube personalities irrefutably prove fair mindedness, humility & sincerity is valued. My fears that content online would eventually consist of nothing but selfies, food pics & competitive victimhood are somewhat reduced. I'd like to see Rossmann on Fridman's podcast.

Lex Fridman misrepresents his role at MIT to make himself sound more accomplished than he really is, and the way he went about putting out his self driving car research directly to the press instead of going through peer review is shady. The guy is a cringeworthy grifter. He’s trying to be viewed as some AI expert but he’s totally full of shit.

Yes, he is not an expert on most of the things he talks about. Also you can almost predict what he will be going to ask to the guests.

But nonetheless as a podcast, I judge more on the basis of the conversation and the guest he had, and in both the metrics he is really great. He is really good in making the guests speak in easy and intuitive terms and making them speak the idea behind the discovery/invention. He sometimes even irritates the people in asking question behind the intuition when many guests are more accustomed with saying strictly provable statements in other places. And that is a part that is really missing in the world and that gives the sense of what's going on, instead of talking just formally provable sentences and terse description of their work.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#63

Post by protomyth » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #42

judge2020 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since he does circuit board repair for Apple devices. And thus, the insight comes from someone who only repairs the components, not someone who knows about designing them. I wouldn't trust my mechanic to tell me that my car's engine was designed badly because chances are that opinion is solely based on how easy/cheap it is to repair.

> chances are that opinion is solely based on how easy/cheap it is to repair. When your mechanic says don't buy a car with a specific motor... You might just want to listen.

Or other things. Brought in my dad's car to a local mechanic because the driver's side door handle was broken. He told me its too damn common on that manufacturers cars from a range of years. Came back later in the day and he showed me the plastic part that had broken. He replaced it with an aluminum part he made.

When you find a good mechanic, listen to them.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#64

Post by josephg » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #56

tcoff91 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lex Fridman misrepresents his role at MIT to make himself sound more accomplished than he really is, and the way he went about putting out his self driving car research directly to the press instead of going through peer review is shady. The guy is a cringeworthy grifter. He’s trying to be viewed as some AI expert but he’s totally full of shit.

I’ve also had a really hard time understanding why people praise him so much, I’ve tried multiple times to listen to his stuff and it’s just super disappointing. Worse than most lay people in depth. For people interested in AGI there are many better sources (MIRI, Yudkowsky), for people interested in self-driving: Andrej Karpathy. Max Tegmark also has some great public facing physics writing. There’s so much great st…

The one aspect of Friedman I really enjoy is the quality of his guests. I don’t know how he does it, but he seems to attract a lot of guests who I’ve never heard of, and yet are super interesting to listen to. For example, I loved his interviews with Joshua Bach and Jim Keller. I’d never heard of either of those guys before they went on Lex Friedman’s podcast and they’re both brilliant.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#65

Post by bogwog » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

slver wrote: post #54

bogwog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple can do a lot to make their hardware more repairable. But also I've seen Rossman outright demand their hardware changes just so it's easier to repair, without regard to things like weight, water resistance, and overall UX. Source? He released a video recently where he basically said that it doesn’t matter if they’re easy to repair. As technology gets more advanced, so do repair shops. It’ll be harder for the a…

> He released a video recently where he basically said that it doesn’t matter if they’re easy to repair. As technology gets more advanced, so do repair shops. > It’ll be harder for the average Joe at home, but that’s precisely why independent repair shops that can offer competitive prices are so important. So you'd really recommend that Joe at home should repair their own Windows laptop or Android phone? Sorry but "g…

By "average Joe" I'm not referring to someone like my grandma or you, I mean someone who isn't a professional repair shop with specialized equipment, but still knows a few things about technology.

I've repaired tons of my own devices over the years. The most "hardcore" repair I've done was replacing a blown capacitor in a Samsung monitor. The monitor was like $200, and the new capacitor cost less than a dollar. I'm terrible at soldering, and have zero skill in that category. That soldering job I did came out really bad, but that monitor still works ~8 years later, and it's sitting on my desk right now as I'm typing this.

> Technology, especially mobile, is at a stage where repairing at home is impossible due to integration and miniaturization.

> Maybe you could install your own RAM on a laptop. Well now that RAM is in the CPU, because it has to be there. So what do we do? Complain until technology goes back a decade or a few?

Neither "right to repair" nor my original comment advocate for being able to repair your own devices at home. I said that, because new devices are impossible to repair at home, it's critical that independent repair shops can exist, because they have expertise and equipment most people don't have to home. Without those independent repair shops, customers are forced to pay the manufacturer for repairs. Apple charges $300 to "fix" a broken screen (they actually just send you a new phone), even though the displays are nowhere near that expensive and Apple can get them at cost (or close to it).

And right to repair has NOTHING to do with changing devices, making them go back "a decade or two", or any bullshit FUD like that. Seriously, go to https://www.fighttorepair.org/ and educate yourself on it so that you see it's 100% in your interests as a consumer.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#66

Post by hourislate » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #60

I genuinely do not want repairability anywhere near the top of the list of performance and design trade offs. Ruggedness, longevity, sure. Avoiding need to repair, definitely. Repairability? Other concerns, things that change the day-to-day use of the device, should weigh more. Spent too many years as a full service PC network support small business to ever again want to deal with parts that aren’t actually attached…

Are you also against being able to upgrade a device, like adding memory or a larger hard drive? Why can't repairability be at the top of the list with performance and design?

Apple doesn't want you to fix its devices, it wants to force you to either have them fix it or buy a new one. It's a business decision not a technical one.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#67

Post by me_me_me » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

defaultname wrote: post #3

Rossmann is an important voice in the right to repair, however I do feel like he leaned into a certain audience, pandering to them a bit as a reliable target for ad impressions, and it has undermined his credibility. I hear about Rossmann most now when some vicious Apple detractor uses him as an authority on things having nothing to do with repair. For instance Rossmann did a video titled "Apple watching & logging EV…

Is this a character assassination post? It really feels like it.

Rossmann opensourced his repair manuals and has detailed videos of how to repair equipment, you can literally start your own repair business of that.

If that is not being for right to repair I don't know what is.

Reading your post again it is a character assassination post.

Shifting goalpost and attacking personal characteristics instead of the point.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#68

Post by BombNullIsland » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #40

gambiting wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, but even your car mechanic would be able to tell if a component they worked with previously has changed only to make it more difficult to replace. You might argue "how do you know that was the only reason" - well, Rossman has a video on a USB-C charging controller embedded into the macbooks, previously if that burnt out(and they do burn out) he could just buy the chip itself online for a dollar. But…

For the little it’s worth: cars are mostly computer now. I come from a family of mechanics, my grandfather lamented new cars and their electronics because it’s harder to repair, he doesn’t try to understand the reason why, just that it’s harder now because the manufacturers “did it to him” to prevent third party repairs. You can argue that the electronics are to prevent cheaper repairs, but there is another truth the…

Perhaps. But it was a deliberate design decision to place certain sensors and actuators that may need repair in inaccessible locations. Pumps, spark plugs and chains need to be removable without major disassembly of the engine.

Shift solenoids are a nasty problem that I've run into. They don't need to be hidden inside the transmission. And the transmission doesn't require the entire engine to be dropped to remove it. This was done to be consumer hostile and to maximize dealer shop hours. Batteries in most german cars are also deliberately placed under major engine components, whereas my Mazda 3 requires two minutes and one socket to replace. Shop hours.

This all needs to be stopped. Major components need to be able to be replaced, for all appliances and machines. Laws need to be changed to force this.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#69

Post by jmpman » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

bstar77 wrote: post #24

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #2

Rossmann is seriously a national treasure. Along with Lex Fridman the two Youtube personalities irrefutably prove fair mindedness, humility & sincerity is valued. My fears that content online would eventually consist of nothing but selfies, food pics & competitive victimhood are somewhat reduced. I'd like to see Rossmann on Fridman's podcast.

I find Rossman insufferable due to his hyperbolic approach to shaming Apple and having a bone to pick with just about everyone- he's the definition of a narcissist. I agree in principle to "right to repair", but Rossman's motives are purely financial and self promoting. I've watched over 100 hours of his content and realized that his audience is primarily made up of anti-apple PC Master Race fanatics that just want t…

I’ve learned more about commercial real estate from Louis than I would have from other sources. There are disincentives for commercial real estate owners to lower their leasing rates, as it can drive a re-evaluation of loan criteria by the banks, forcing the owner to immediately increase equity. Banks don’t want this to happen, as it makes their books look bad.

Watching his business struggle through Covid fills me with great respect for the small business owner and the difficult choices which must be made. Did NY have it out for him? They were far from business friendly with their Covid restrictions. Recently, his shop was fined for not registering used laptops that his customers had abandoned for repair. Sure, NYC is attempting to prevent stolen laptops from being resold, but the level of bureaucratic idiocy turns Rossman’s channel into a Shakespearen comedy.

As for his specific gripes about repeated Apple design failures, he makes a good argument. Two stand out. First, liquid intolerance. Thinkpads from years ago used to tolerate coffee spilt on the keyboard. It flowed right through. From the number of water damaged MacBooks Louis repairs, it appears Apples can’t take a drop. If Apple is upset with Rossman’s criticism, they can easily apply board level coating to solve the problem.

Second, he’s critical of the connectors being soldered directly to the motherboard instead of going into a daughterboard and connecting via a flex connector.

And, yes, the above design decisions are made by Apple for a number of different, possibly valid reasons. To hit a price point, to fit within a form factor, to deliver in a required timeframe. But Louis brings up the point that Apple may be making these decisions for less than consumer friendly reasons. Planned obsolescence? Could Apple change the design of their connectors so they won’t break? Yes, but maybe they didn’t because they expect 5.8% of the connectors to fail and not be economical to repair in the Apple store, driving 5.8% greater revenue.

All that being said, yes, Louis takes the above points, which can be read in a minute, and rehashes them 50 different ways.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#70

Post by nobodywasishere » Sun, May 23, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #60

I genuinely do not want repairability anywhere near the top of the list of performance and design trade offs. Ruggedness, longevity, sure. Avoiding need to repair, definitely. Repairability? Other concerns, things that change the day-to-day use of the device, should weigh more. Spent too many years as a full service PC network support small business to ever again want to deal with parts that aren’t actually attached…

Rossmann is not advocating for companies to change how they design stuff. Primarily, he just wants companies to release schematics (that they already have and aren't really proprietary) and to stop making deals with manufacturers to only sell custom parts to that company (which is what apple is doing with one of their charge chips).