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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#911

Post by mattnewton »

jessedhillon wrote: post #894
mattnewton wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well-meaning white people have been duped by a vocal minority of non-whites, who themselves were duped by cynical, washed out 60s radicals with bad ideas who failed to achieve anything in their time. You have been encouraged to treat non-whites like child emperors in your midst, whose every whim and dictate can only lead the way to racial harmony and absolution of your inherited sins. We are still talking about add…

>We are still talking about adding some code points to Unicode here, right? Or did I miss something? This is a matter of representation and inclusion, which are worthwhile goals that should matter to people in positions to make decisions. Also, this is trivial and doesn't matter. >Not Indian or Black. Almost certainly he reads as white to most people. The blue hair and yellow skin was not meant to signify the charact…

It’s not about me reading race into the Simpsons, I am saying that the “simpsons yellow” was not intended as a pan-racial skin tone and does not read that way for many people. The fact that minority characters are given a different skin tone than yellow, and the statements of the cartoonists suggest to me that the creators themselves do not view it that way, so it does not seem unreasonable for other people to not accept “simpsons yellow” as a pan-racial skin tone.

Can we at least agree on that or is that too a sign of some “pathology” on my part?

Then, if that’s true, and we think it’s a problem, adding more skin tones seems to me like a trivial fix; but this particular fix being of little cost does not cheapen the wider problems of diversity and inclusion.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#912

Post by mbrodersen »

ne0flex wrote: post #830
Moodles wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. Yeah, 100%. Were you in California last summer? “Silence is violence” was the phrase of the day. I’ve got about a gazillion stories from living in San Francisco for three years.

I'm curious if you could share some of your stories. Since last year, I've stopped using social media like FB. When the summer came around, my friends were posting political stuff online and noticed I wasn't interacting with it. My phone would then blow up with messages along the theme of: "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?".

Are you sure those people are really your friends and not just people you hang out with? IMHO real friends wouldn’t use passive aggressive tactics like that.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#913

Post by mbrodersen »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #57
archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

You need to experience challenges and overcome difficulties to build a strong character. The same way the immune system needs to be exposed to bacteria and dirt to become strong. When you aren’t, the result is a weak fragile personality that can’t cope with the slightest unexpected derivation from how they expect things to be.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#914

Post by mbrodersen »

eloff wrote: post #255
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

I feel like this is true, especially of younger generations, in many rich countries. I think maybe because it takes challenge and pain to grow and things have been quite comfortable for a long time for many. It could just be my perception. But I've never seen so much anxiety, such reluctance to do hard things, and such inability to focus. Social media may be largely to blame.

It is not just your opinion. Read the book “antifragile”.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#915

Post by mbrodersen »

anon7725 wrote: post #140
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

> I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were People are people. I would try to view it through the lens of power dynamics and in-group signaling rather than weakness/strength.

Strength is the ability to deal with difficulties and different opinions. Weekness is being threatened by anybody thinking even slightly differently.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#916

Post by Lammy »

throwkeep wrote: post #849
Moodles wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, get new friends. They sound horrible. So many stories. My skip level manager had me in a 1-on-1 once and said something along the lines: “you probably got the green card because Trump likes your demographic”. (I have an EB-1 extraordinary ability green card, and I assume they were talking about me being straight and white). What the fuck am I supposed to say there? Was absolutely speechless. Moments like that a…

This also sounds like Scientology or at the very least a high pressure religion. "Joe is an evil person who will introduce you to evil things! We do not speak of him here." "Are you a true believer or not?" "We can tell you're not a devoted Scientologist." "Fall in line, or we'll bully and ostracize you."

The term is "Suppressive Person" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_Person

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#917

Post by paisawalla »

mattnewton wrote: post #911
jessedhillon wrote: post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We are still talking about adding some code points to Unicode here, right? Or did I miss something? This is a matter of representation and inclusion, which are worthwhile goals that should matter to people in positions to make decisions. Also, this is trivial and doesn't matter. >Not Indian or Black. Almost certainly he reads as white to most people. The blue hair and yellow skin was not meant to signify the charact…

It’s not about me reading race into the Simpsons, I am saying that the “simpsons yellow” was not intended as a pan-racial skin tone and does not read that way for many people. The fact that minority characters are given a different skin tone than yellow, and the statements of the cartoonists suggest to me that the creators themselves do not view it that way, so it does not seem unreasonable for other people to not ac…

Look, to me this is as preposterous as someone complaining that the eggplant and peach emojis should come in various shades. They aren't meant to be literal representations of your junk, and a yellow "thumbs up" is not meant to represent your actual hand. It's meant to represent your approval.

I agree it's a trivial change. To me the underlying issue is that, were it some non-racial domain this issue occured in, most people would have no problem seeing the claim that something so petty and insignificant has actually caused deep injury to my identity for what it is: absurd and possibly deranged. It's only when it comes to race that well meaning people are content to accept such absurd positions, thereby infantilizing the complainant.

And my real issue is that when you do that, it has been my observation that it changes your assumptions about all of "us". So I resent the default assumption that I am weak or need coddling, which is an assumption that I see many of your persuasion holding. (Acknowledging that some assumptions were made on my part just now as well)

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#918

Post by greesil »

visarga wrote: post #552
greesil wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be true if there was no difference between seeking equality and justice vs. scapegoating Naziesque goose-stepping grievances. I say this as someone who gets annoyed by politically active coworkers. Not all ideologies are created equally.

> seeking equality and justice Equality of outcome or opportunity? That matters. I'd support one but not the other. I lived under Communism until 1989 and I know what equal outcome looks like after decades of having its run. There is no incentive to excel and all the incentives to conform because equality comes before merit. After some time the whole society slides into poverty. What I don't like is to put ideology o…

I support equality of outcome. Everyone should be poor. It builds character, and makes for better writers. A nation's progress should only be measured by the literature it generates, and then forces its children to read.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#919

Post by _-david-_ »

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #889
bingbong70 wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was never a problem pre-pandemic I think this was less of a problem pre-Trump more specifically. At some point the idea that foreigners and minorities should be treated like human beings seemed to become controversial in some circles. Same circles that thought an alternate invented history was preferable to reality and spent a lot of time/money mainstreaming that idea. The resulting push back was expected and n…

Republicans started lying in the 90s to stay in power. Trump was a consequence of that. But yeah, pre-Trump they did "only" bend the rules to stay in power, with Trump that changed to openly trying to overthrow democracy. That you can only do by constantly lying. Kinda sucks if you only have to parties, and one becomes a fascist cult. Makes discussing politics impossible, probably. There's just a difference between u…

First of all every political party lies to stay in power. The idea that this is unique to the Republican party is ridiculous. The Democratic consistently lie and bend the rules as well.

If you think Republicans are supporting fascism then you either don't know what fascism is or what Republicans support.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#920

Post by [deleted] »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #910
rimliu wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are extremely to the left everything else is to the right, right?

Not everyone, but if you think it's a good idea to get on stage and say that white supremacy doesn't exist as a significant part of American culture, I think I have a pretty solid idea who you voted for in 2020. Especially if you have a reputation for reposting Breitbart articles. As an outsider, what it looks like happened at Basecamp was: 1. Some people did something insensitive. Not great, but not the end of the w…

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