Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#901

Post by achenatx » Sat, May 22, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

Moodles wrote: post #825

chitowneats wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Please, people, do NOT be honest about your conservative or non-woke political positions in this industry. You will absolutely be punished for them by your peers. It is not in any situation ever worth it. Clock in, clock out, take the check, and always always always keep interviewing constantly because they will have no issues firing you arbitrarily. Work at a large enough company and t…

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently…

how hard is it to just agree? I agree with conservatives and liberals even when they are saying ridiculous things.

"Oh yeah, I totally know what you are saying"

"mmm hmmm"

"Interesting I hadnt thought about it like that before".

It is your ego or something else that makes it hard for you to do this.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#902

Post by emteycz » Sat, May 22, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

I am really trying but I still have no idea what "being woke" means. I would like to try being woke tomorrow - what do I do?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#903

Post by HardwareLust » Sat, May 22, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

tjpnz wrote: post #592

Sometimes if I have a spare moment and a thought pops into my head I'll put it into a notes app. Sometimes I'll go back and expand these notes to the point where I've essentially got a blog post. I've got dozens of these but I'm just too afraid to post them. It's not that I'm saying anything terribly provocative either, it's mostly about coding and my experiences living in Japan. Yet there's always going to be a way…

I would love to read or hear about your experiences while living in Japan. I spent 5 years there myself, and I'd be curious to see if your impressions were similar to mine or not.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#904

Post by wearywanderer » Sat, May 22, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

pseudalopex wrote: post #394

wearywanderer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective on this is you don't lob any sort of infographic about genocide at somebody without meaning to tarnish them. That's escalating the seriousness of a conversation drastically. Making fun of people named Dickinson is not remotely cool, but bringing genocide into the resulting conversation seems way over the line.

The graphic isn't about genocide. It's about all the things mentioned.

Is genocide not the most serious subject that infographic brings up? It's not some minor footnote in the infographic; it's right at the very top in the most prominent position. I'd say that infographic is more about genocide than anything else.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#905

Post by zepto » Sat, May 22, 2021, 11:09 PM UTC

throwkeep wrote: post #846

ne0flex wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you could share some of your stories. Since last year, I've stopped using social media like FB. When the summer came around, my friends were posting political stuff online and noticed I wasn't interacting with it. My phone would then blow up with messages along the theme of: "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?".

> "are you showing your real self by not supporting x?" Are they in a cult? That sounds like some Scientology shit.

Yes. Woke is a cult and nothing more.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#906

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 22, 2021, 11:29 PM UTC

chitowneats wrote: post #899

cutemonster wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moodles and chitowneats I wonder what are some examples of things you'd like to say / opinions you have, but that might make the coworkers angry?

I'll copy my example from below: "There are still many of us out there who believe that hiring candidates based on their race is not healthy for society, the company, or any individual candidate. That opinion is largely being stamped out, by design, in management at the orgs I'm talking about. This has nothing to do with not wanting to step up and manage."

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#907

Post by Moodles » Sat, May 22, 2021, 11:38 PM UTC

achenatx wrote: post #901

Moodles wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently…

how hard is it to just agree? I agree with conservatives and liberals even when they are saying ridiculous things. "Oh yeah, I totally know what you are saying" "mmm hmmm" "Interesting I hadnt thought about it like that before". It is your ego or something else that makes it hard for you to do this.

> how hard is it to just agree? I agree with conservatives and liberals even when they are saying ridiculous things.

It sucks you feel you have to do that just to survive your job. That's a toxic culture. These woke types feel you should bring your whole self to work, express yourself freely etc. One rule for me, another for thee. Agreeing with someone's worldview everyday when you actually disagree is bad for your ego. What's good for your ego is being authentic. I get what you mean about the need to be right all the time is a sign of a weak ego though. Though I don't have that, which is why I mostly don't bother talking about politics at work.

> "Oh yeah, I totally know what you are saying"

> "mmm hmmm"

> "Interesting I hadnt thought about it like that before".

That's different to actually agreeing. I would never explicitly agree with someone just to placate them at work. How do you think I've survived San Francisco for the last three years? I usually go with agreeing when I actually agree and not bothering to talk about it if I don't think they're mature enough to handle me disagreeing, which is pretty often. But I'm never, ever, going to agree with someone's drastically different worldview just to do my job that's totally unrelated. Nobody should have to put up with that.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#908

Post by Moodles » Sat, May 22, 2021, 11:43 PM UTC

cutemonster wrote: post #897

Moodles wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, though it is still a little soul crushing. Obviously making big bucks and providing for your family is more important than debating some cancel culture social justice warrior at work who’ll never be convinced anyway, but listening to some eye rolling inducing faff every day and feeling like if you just told the truth you’d be fired makes you feel weak after a long time. Especially if you vehemently…

Moodles and chitowneats I wonder what are some examples of things you'd like to say / opinions you have, but that might make the coworkers angry?

I told some stories in the other thread here. I definitely agree with chitowneats' sibling comment about hiring based on race being morally repugnant also.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#909

Post by bsanr2 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #97

bsanr2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, in the never-ending struggle to force employees to conform to some platonic ideal of efficient production, companies have spent a lot of time and energy - not just in their own policy, but also in lobbying to the government and the public at large - trying to make work the center of the average American's life. Think of all the things you have to pass by your boss before making decisions about your own…

> We're not like Germany or Sweden, where the means to simply exist are widely accessible outside of work, and where work ends when it ends, on the dot This is a curious fantasy that many Americans hold. After having spent the best part of a decade working mostly in Sweden and Germany, I can tell you this has no basis in reality.

It's the impression that I've gotten from every review of the subject, even from natives, so, "no basis in reality" seems like a stretch. At the very least, it is objectively true that people in these countries work fewer hours than Americans do. But I tend to believe that it extends beyond this, and that there is a fundamentally different approach to work in these countries than in America. If people here want the paradigm to be "work is work," then the sacrifice is that you carve out of the work-centered lifestyle Americans live more time and energy that work cannot touch.

If your contention is that Europe is not perfect in this regard, that's orthogonal to my point, which used those (perhaps idealized) examples as naught more than illustrations.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#910

Post by GeneralMayhem » Sun, May 23, 2021, 12:15 AM UTC

rimliu wrote: post #675

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The story of Basecamp is a story of how the extreme-right is able to successfully tar any progress - or, frankly, any lack of regress - as "politics", and therefore something that belongs in a box somewhere else, to be addressed at some other time. When what you want is the status quo, you can always look like the great reconciler by saying "this isn't the time for this conversation", because you win by default.

When you are extremely to the left everything else is to the right, right?

Not everyone, but if you think it's a good idea to get on stage and say that white supremacy doesn't exist as a significant part of American culture, I think I have a pretty solid idea who you voted for in 2020. Especially if you have a reputation for reposting Breitbart articles.

As an outsider, what it looks like happened at Basecamp was:

1. Some people did something insensitive. Not great, but not the end of the world.

2. Some people - possibly overlapping the previous group - call out that said activity is insensitive, and ask for it to stop. Possibly not in the politest way possible, but also not starting fights.

3. A right-wing extremist in a position of power gets bent out of shape and uses his position of power to say that racism doesn't real, and that microaggressions are pretty cool, actually.

4. Chaos ensues. CEO doesn't immediately tell right-wing extremist to fuck off, and instead thanks him for his contributions - which, while understandable in the heat of the moment, isn't a good look for him... especially since he has no deniability about already knowing extremist's true colors.

5. Rather than taking sides between slightly over-enthusiastic concerned employees and right-wing extremism, CEO says that all politics are now off limits, which makes it sound like both sides were equally at fault. Right-wing extremist's position is thus legitimized, which is likely all he wanted in the first place.