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Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

blog.twitch.tv

261–270 of 275 posts

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#261
post #36

I never used Twitch before the pandemic -- watching people play games was never really my thing. But then I discovered the entire second use of Twitch, streaming music. Since March 2020, it's been possible to find someone streaming music at pretty much any time of day. One day I was watching around 2am Pacific time, and the stream ended. I was looking for another one when I saw someone in the music category with 13,0…

Especially on the internet, home of more pornography than any human could ever consume in a million lifetimes. I don't understand what would compel someone to sit and watch and tip someone in a bathing suit attempting to play video games.

It's not porn, it's human interaction, acknoledgment and a form of power. The viewer can control with their money what the streamer is doing, they are recognised and build a form of relationship. This is on both sides a darker aspect of sexuality and behaviour that humans are not learning much about. That's why it's hard to understand and recognise such things.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#262

I think there's a significant amount of nuance in this situation. On the one hand, I don't object to people steaming and monetizing suggestive (or even explicit) content. These content creators should be able to produce and monetize this content without stigma. On the other hand, I do think the juxtaposition of this content with the rest of Twitch content is problematic. I think putting this content in the same categ…

> I think putting this content in the same category as gaming content

This is not happening here. Twitch is not a pure Gaming-site anymore, for several years now. And those hot tub-streams are not listed in gaming-categories, they are in non-gaming-categories like "Just Chatting", "Music", even "Travel & Outdoors" (because there are also legit beach-streams which play the hot tub-routine).

Twitch started as Gaming-Only, and the majority of content is still gaming. But people should realize that Non-Gaming is already big on twitch too, and it grows. Twitch is bringing sports and fashing-events to the platform. Music has grown string the last year because of COVID. And some people have found their niche in tame porn-content. Which technically is kind of a joke, because the biggest Hot Tub-Streamer has sexualized content on Twitch for years. But in the past she used the Just Dance-Game to create sexualixed content, or did some fitness-stuff. She is literally infamouse on the platform for this, and Hot tub is just the latest trend in a series of long running content-attempts. Just because it now is now missing the gaming-part, should make it worse? I don't think so.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#263
post #218
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a simple solution be to allow people to disable or hide NSFW streams? Reddit and Twitter both have this, IIRC.

This is the fundamental part of the problem. People are acting as if these streams are not sexualised and SFW.

It seems like a lot of the people in this thread are not really twitch users and aren't really aware of what's being discussed. They're seeing "Hot Tub Streams" and think it's just a person sitting in a hot tub, unaware of how sexual these streams have become.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#264

The main thing is these are not "hot tubs" they are indoors, in a normal room, an apartment, in a kiddies play pool, with kiddies inflatable equipment. The water is, additionally, cold and a few inches deep. No-one in the world does this type of activity privately or in public. It's so obviously soft core pornography and way away from the sensible "appropriate behaviour and clothing rules" that it's absurd. Now there…

> The main thing is these are not "hot tubs" they are indoors, in a normal room, an apartment, in a kiddies play pool, with kiddies inflatable equipment.

Some are, some not. There are Hot Tub-Streams in Gardes, Pools, beachs. And the whole thing did not even start with Hot Tubs. In the beginning it was just people on their bed.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#265
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fundamental part of the problem. People are acting as if these streams are not sexualised and SFW.

It seems like a lot of the people in this thread are not really twitch users and aren't really aware of what's being discussed. They're seeing "Hot Tub Streams" and think it's just a person sitting in a hot tub, unaware of how sexual these streams have become.

Even if that were the case, they need to be segregated, very clearly from normal streams. I don't want to see women or men in minimal close when casually browsing in a public place.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#266
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this moderation paradox - of needing curation at scale, but automatic moderation + "user flag" moderation being inadequate - is a universal problem, or do you think it's specific to ad-funded platforms? I wonder if a patron-driven community that sets its own moderation policy wouldn't have this problem, because when a topic gets too large it will inevitably splinter into smaller communities where the pre…

Mm, dunno. I suspect it's a universal problem, given that Patreon also fights with "how erotic is too erotic". But the core of today's practical concerns might simply be that advertising doesn't pay enough to afford content moderation.

[deleted]

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the core of the problem that we're facing on every modern "all the things" platform. How do you create a general content site, without spending money on human review and curation of all uploads, while segregating erotic and non-erotic content, without having your entire site banned/blocked/gated around the world for hosting erotic content? This has affected Amazon, Blogspot, Facebook, Google, Imgur, Patreon,…

I agree ai curation doesn't work but I don't think human curation works much better. Twitch has a team of human curators that will ban channels, no one knows who this team is there is no trial or opportunity to defend your self, channel or content. The person judging may be in a bad mood today, often diffrent people will get diffrent ban lengths for the same thing, there is no consistency or review process.

Disagreeing with the decisions of moderators is orthogonal to comparing AI and Human moderation.

AI moderators are terrible at enforcing a complex set of practices and rules.

Human moderators are excellent at enforcing a complex set of practices and rules.

Both are subject to the whims of those defining the practices and rules, and their enforcement will always fall within scope of those definitions. If Twitch’s moderators are given full empowerment to set the rules they moderate by, then it is appropriate to blame them for what is perceived as faulty moderation decisions. Chances are, they do not have any such authority, and at best can “recommend” or “advise” while being compelled to silence by their overlords.

You are absolutely right that humans make biased decisions, no matter how much we work to correct for it; judge sentencing becomes more strict when they’re hungry or their local sports team lost, and referees are less likely to penalize the home team when in the home stadium with home fans yelling at them. But these biases can be documented, studied, and gradually accounted for in training and post-decision reviews. It’s not perfect, but it’s still great.

With AI moderation, we bake the biases into the dataset and training models, and then we throw complex rule making decisions at a nascent ML network that can’t discern the simplest of decisions that any human moderators could: “Is this erotic or non-erotic content?”. Setting aside the biases of any possible training set versus Rule 34, it is dead simple to outwit any AI in this regard, in ways that most human moderators would detect instantly. It’s not perfect, and in fact it’s pretty awful.

I agree that the rulemaking decisions of modern sites are often terrible, biased, and exclusionary of entire categories of human beings and behaviors. However, the errors made by human moderators trying to service the complexity assigned to them do not somehow excuse the staggering naivety and incompetence of AI moderators. The heavyweights in this Ml moderation industry — Google, Amazon, Facebook — have failed to deliver effective ML moderation after billions of dollars and cumulative decades of investment, and paper over their failure by using user flags and human review teams to disguise the sharp edges of their solutions.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#268
post #73
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was fascinated by the fact that she had so many people basically just watching her in a hot tub and giving her money. She wasn't doing anything compelling. Wait until you learn about VTubers.

I just Googled that. I'm equally fascinated.

Did you know netflix has virtual youtuber promoting their anime channel?

:D

https://youtu.be/pTF_b_9q5o8

I am hyped about increasing use of virtual mascots by corporations.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#269
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know there were so many outraged prudes on twitch. Why should twitch have a sexually suggestive content rule in the first place? This rule actually seems reasonable: > Nudity or sexually explicit content (which we define as pornography, sex acts, and sexual services) are not allowed on Twitch. I don't see what the huge issue with showing off your own sexiness is. Sheesh!

Because Twitch focuses largely on marketing directly to children? You cannot separate the fact that Twitch is trying to become the site for all gaming (including children) and also allowing nearly-softcore porn on the same site. Its literally a few clicks away. Now, they think because they made a separate category, advertisers will be fine with it. They are lucky that hot tub streamers haven't gotten mainstream news…

Can you imagine the outrage of parents when they see what their kids can see by googling? Bad argument.

Re: Let’s Talk About Hot Tub Streams

#270
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is that they insist on pretending that these streamers aren't trying to sexualize themselves. The streamer that caused this blog to be written basically uses her twitch channel as a front to sell her nudes on another site. If people want to sexualize themselves for money that's their business, the problem is they keep trying to find loopholes in the conduct policy to transform a site about videogames tha…

Has there been any good meta analyses on the effects of suggestive content on children? My prior is that seeing sex was common enough in the ancestral environment, both human and animal sex, and children won’t be much effected from this content floating around.

A little late to the thread, but wanted to add my 2 cents anyway. It's not exposure itself to sexual that is the issue, it is encouragement (implicit or explicit) that the children emulate or partake in the same behaviors. For every ancient civilization that mated in front of their kids, how many also mated with their kids? Don't be too quick to dismiss the long term mental effects on exposure and normalization of sexuality to the sexually immature.
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