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Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

cnn.com

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Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#101

Post by Buttons840 »

newacct583 wrote: post #68
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

> Wow. Like, I completely fail to comprehend how it's legal in the US judiciary system to ignore any piece of available hard evidence in a case that is punishable by execution? It wasn't "completely ignored". It was presented to the court and the test was requested, and the request was denied. Evidentiary rules are complicated and subject to abuse, yes, but they protect all of us. It's not like we'd be better off if…

> It's not like we'd be better off if discovery was unlimited.

Why not? Why shouldn't the defense be able to present all evidence in their possession?

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#102

Post by beerandt »

For those concerned with the eye witness testimony:

In this case, the neighbor saw the suspect go into the victim's house and then leave, and followed him.

At the suspects next stop there was a women who knew him. This is the woman who later ID'd him.

This isn't a case of a botched police lineup, or a stranger relying on memory.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#103

Post by GavinMcG »

qalmakka wrote: post #54

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration. The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for…

> it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment

It's only hypocritical if the justice system claims to be solely about re-education. But you point out two other goals—deterrence and isolation—and there really are people out there who believe punishment is a moral good and a necessary component of justice.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#104

Post by hedora »

intricatedetail wrote: post #99
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

As if judge was interested in closing the case and moving onto the next one rather than serving justice. In many countries judges are unsackable, is it true in the US?

Many judges in the US have lifetime appointments. This is one reason it was so damaging (depending on your point of view) when congress refused to confirm Obama’s judicial nominees, then rammed through a record number under Trump.

It led to Trump boasting that the judges would just tilt the scales on the election for him if the count said he lost (that didn’t work out), and the current large crop of new abortion bans working their way up to the (in his words), “Trump judge” federal courts.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#105

Post by GavinMcG »

reducesuffering wrote: post #78
scrps wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do all states have compensation statutes? The federal government, the District of Columbia, and 36 states have compensation statutes of some form. The following 14 states do not: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Wyoming. https://innocenceproject.org/compensating-wrongly-convicted/

Anyone want to summarize the argument of these 14 states that isn't "Yes, we as a society locked up an innocent for 30 years, but now that they're free we don't owe them anything"..?

Why would they need an argument? Politics isn't about who has the better argument. It's just that no one in those states has (so far) had the skill, energy, and resources to organize political change on the issue.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#106

Post by NikolaeVarius »

Buttons840 wrote: post #101
newacct583 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow. Like, I completely fail to comprehend how it's legal in the US judiciary system to ignore any piece of available hard evidence in a case that is punishable by execution? It wasn't "completely ignored". It was presented to the court and the test was requested, and the request was denied. Evidentiary rules are complicated and subject to abuse, yes, but they protect all of us. It's not like we'd be better off if…

> It's not like we'd be better off if discovery was unlimited. Why not? Why shouldn't the defense be able to present all evidence in their possession?

Because evidence could literally be anything in the universe and no limits on what is able to be presented opens up abuse via random shit

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#107

Post by hedora »

reducesuffering wrote: post #78
scrps wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do all states have compensation statutes? The federal government, the District of Columbia, and 36 states have compensation statutes of some form. The following 14 states do not: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Wyoming. https://innocenceproject.org/compensating-wrongly-convicted/

Anyone want to summarize the argument of these 14 states that isn't "Yes, we as a society locked up an innocent for 30 years, but now that they're free we don't owe them anything"..?

Most of those states are historically racist.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#108

Post by mikeryan »

awb wrote: post #23
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

For context, here’s the other evidence the judge is referring to: > Asked about the new DNA evidence, Rutledge repeatedly insisted Lee was "lawfully executed" and pointed to the testimony of an eyewitness who purportedly saw Lee enter Reese's home that day and then leave, "erratically," 20 minutes later. There’s also more context here for anyone interested in the case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledell_Lee As fo…

Any attorney or judge who justifies their conviction on eyewitness testimony has to know, at this point, its bullshit. Every criminal attorney at this point knows the infallibility of an eye witness has been proven over and over to be false.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#109

Post by beerandt »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of lifetime state issued punishments that are designed to make people feel really bad is their economic insanity. Applying the death penalty in the US involves spending millions in legal and incarceration fees. It also seems to have no deterrence effect on mass murderers, which the US has a high concentration of. The cost of lifetime imprisonment or execution is outright massive, in the millions over the…

In my mind, that would be a problem with the justice system, rather than the death penalty as a concept. Also, as for why it seems to have no deterrence, how many people in the whole United States were killed? Only 22 in 2019, and you probably have never heard the names of even one of those people. If the fact of who was dying, for what crime, was highlighted more often in the media, the statistics may be significant…

Or bring back public-square and courthouse executions.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#110

Post by mikeryan »

GavinMcG wrote: post #98
gbrown wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when the current result is based on eyewitness testimony, which is known to be crap.

Well that kind of depends on the actual testimony, doesn't it? Here, the defendant was neighbors with the victim, and the witnesses were other neighbors . So there's not much reason to doubt their identification, at least.

the witnesses were other neighbors. So there's not much reason to doubt their identification, at least.

Sure there is, if you seem someone leaving a house that resembles another neighbor you’re going to assume its the neighbor and not a stranger. Context is huge.

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