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Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

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Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#91

Post by beerandt »

alex-yark wrote: post #62
logicchains wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are sometimes sitautions where someone's guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt; I don't imagine prosecutors would be particularly afraid to pursue the death penalty for someone like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik (who got 21 years in jail for the murder of 77 people).

Whilst that's the maximum permissible sentence in Norway it's worth highlighting that it can be extended indefinitely if he is considered still a risk to society - the requirement to review the need to continue detaining him (on a semi frequent basis) being considered a human right. Based on his activity since being convicted I doubt he'll be released for significantly longer than his minimum sentence.

That doesn't sound like much of a "human right" to me, if a maximum sentence can be extended by a parole board.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#92

Post by ozzmotik »

bananapear wrote: post #75
tyingq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

> This 19 wooden tire thumper lets you know if your tires are fully pressurized by making a thump as it hits the rubber. Just swing the thumper and listen for the sound. If your tires are low in pressure it makes a different sound. Save time checking tire pressure on your rig with this wooden tire thumper. Is this some kind of nonsense to avoid marketing it as a weapon, or do people really use these to check tyre pre…

https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/columnists/tire-thumper-...

>Drivers of big rigs, with a gazillion tires, don’t want to take the time to apply a pressure gauge to each one...

so according to this, the intended market for a tire thumper is evidently drivers of 18 wheelers, as it would take an inordinate amount of time to check the tire pressure of every single tire with a pressure gauge. that being said, it very clearly can be used for other, more nefarious purposes, and I would be inclined to assume that a large percentage of individuals purchasing one intend to use it for said other purposes.

it's conceptually similar to how gas stations, etc, ostensibly sell "glass roses" as a gift a and a certain type of tire pressure gauge as a tool, when in reality, the majority of purchases for them are to be used as paraphernalia for consuming illicit substances (methamphetamine/any substance to be vaporized via indirect heat and freebase cocaine/"crack", respectively.)

it's telling in the latter case that you can usually find chore boy or some other similar scouring pad generally sold near the gauge (which is used as a screen for capturing the melted substance,) especially in places where no such cleaning products are sold elsewhere.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#93

Post by krisoft »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #72
staunch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Execution absolutely guarantees that the criminal will not hurt anyone ever again. In prison, criminals can still hurt prison guards and other prisoners. They can also escape or be freed by mistake. There is a clearly benefit in terms of risk to innocent people. There are certainly innocent people that have been spared harm or death by virtue of executions. I don't view execution as punishment or revenge. I view i…

"Arguably, the torture of prison makes it worse than execution in many cases." This. Whenever somebody says we shouldn't abolish the death penalty, I ask them how it would feel to be locked in a cage for 23 hours a day for up to 60 years (which in most Supermax prisons for people who committed atrocious crimes, is very much the case). If they admit that would be torturous, I then point out that the death penalty is d…

What a weird argument for the death penalty. If you worry about this aspect surely you can just ask the convict if they prefer to stay in prison or if they prefer to die. And not in a philosophical thought experiment way, but in the most direct way possible: “You have been found a very bad egg by the rules of the area you are in. We decided to never let you out again. Since this decision you have been in this facility for x days. Do you want to die today or do you want to die in a future uncertain date?” And see what that particular person thinks instead of some armchair philosopher on some random website.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#94

Post by [deleted] »

awb wrote: post #23
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

For context, here’s the other evidence the judge is referring to: > Asked about the new DNA evidence, Rutledge repeatedly insisted Lee was "lawfully executed" and pointed to the testimony of an eyewitness who purportedly saw Lee enter Reese's home that day and then leave, "erratically," 20 minutes later. There’s also more context here for anyone interested in the case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledell_Lee As fo…

[deleted]

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#95

Post by jws »

bananapear wrote: post #75
tyingq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

> This 19 wooden tire thumper lets you know if your tires are fully pressurized by making a thump as it hits the rubber. Just swing the thumper and listen for the sound. If your tires are low in pressure it makes a different sound. Save time checking tire pressure on your rig with this wooden tire thumper. Is this some kind of nonsense to avoid marketing it as a weapon, or do people really use these to check tyre pre…

Thumping is a quick and dirty check for a grossly under pressure tire. This video shows the sound difference… https://youtu.be/6yboxSUt26s

You can use a hammer, a bat, a pry bar, anything with some mass and some reach so you can easily hit the inner tire of the dual pair. (All of which are perfectly serviceable weapons in their own right.)

And sure, in an ideal world maybe people would use gauges, or have internal monitors, or some fancy solution, but time is money and money is money, so a quick thumping suffices and don’t follow the trucks so closely that you get hit by the fragments went their retreaded tires come apart.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#96

Post by aaron-santos »

traloid wrote: post #90
LocalH wrote: post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

It is justice. Every murderer should be executed by the state IMO.

Justice involves the victims not the state. The Kantian idea of justice should have died out centuries ago.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#97

Post by gjsman-1000 »

scrps wrote: post #22

Death is an immutable punishment, that really should be all the logic needed to dissuade people from supporting the death penalty. Locking an innocent person up for n number of years is a massive injustice but at least the person can be freed and compensated.

I commented this above, but I think it's relevant here.

It's odd that I hear people who say "Oh, in prison, they're safe from society." That's not true historically. Some of the most dangerous people in history were imprisoned, multiple times, and not killed for fear of public anger - only to get out of prison and wreak havoc.

Hitler was found guilty of treason, but was given a more humane 5 years in prison instead of the death penalty that would have historically been applied to treasonous people. He wrote Mein Kampf, got out of prison, started World War II, and killed millions.

Stalin was exiled to Siberia multiple times for his crimes including bank robbery, kidnappings, and extortion instead of being given death. He came back to Russia for the February Revolution, overthrew the Russian empire, started the Gulag system, and caused the deaths of millions.

For all we know, the Unabomber is in prison right now, but what happens if he escaped? It is not historically impossible, or even implausible, that he couldn't repeat history like many revolutionaries who were arrested, got out, and took over.

The point is more that there is zero guarantee historically that people in prison are completely safely isolated from society. And for that reason, let's say 90% of convictions to death (considering only 22 people died in 2019) were accurate and 2 were wrong. Considering how extremely dangerous historically and in reality the criminals being convicted to death are considered to be, it's a necessary evil to ensure justice and safety for the regular citizen.

For that reason, will some innocent people be sentence to death? Unlikely considering how much crime is required, but it is possible. But just because that could potentially happen doesn't invalidate the death penalty. If we invalidated everything because it could affect _just one_ person, why not have the police be able to break down doors at will because just one kidnapped person might be found? Why not throw out encryption on our phones because just one child molester might be found?

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#98

Post by GavinMcG »

gbrown wrote: post #7
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

Especially when the current result is based on eyewitness testimony, which is known to be crap.

Well that kind of depends on the actual testimony, doesn't it?

Here, the defendant was neighbors with the victim, and the witnesses were other neighbors. So there's not much reason to doubt their identification, at least.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#99

Post by intricatedetail »

endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

As if judge was interested in closing the case and moving onto the next one rather than serving justice. In many countries judges are unsackable, is it true in the US?

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#100

Post by slumdev »

ta988 wrote: post #19
LocalH wrote: post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

Stop canonizing the criminals "murdered" by police. Easy fix. As soon as Ben Crump shows up on the scene, you know the person wasn't innocent.
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