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Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

cnn.com

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Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#81

Post by f38zf5vdt »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #72
staunch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Execution absolutely guarantees that the criminal will not hurt anyone ever again. In prison, criminals can still hurt prison guards and other prisoners. They can also escape or be freed by mistake. There is a clearly benefit in terms of risk to innocent people. There are certainly innocent people that have been spared harm or death by virtue of executions. I don't view execution as punishment or revenge. I view i…

"Arguably, the torture of prison makes it worse than execution in many cases." This. Whenever somebody says we shouldn't abolish the death penalty, I ask them how it would feel to be locked in a cage for 23 hours a day for up to 60 years (which in most Supermax prisons for people who committed atrocious crimes, is very much the case). If they admit that would be torturous, I then point out that the death penalty is d…

You can't make a human being feel psychological pain since the perception is individual. Once in a prison where their medical, food, and financial needs are 100% assumed by the state, they might find their lives better.

If they believed the world was so unjust that they went out and committed horrible crimes in the name of self-satisfaction or their personal beliefs on how to make the world just, they might just sit in a cell and feel good about what they did in perpetuity.

People like the Unabomber continue to sit around and pen manifestos justifying their own actions because of their political beliefs.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#82

Post by chmod600 »

I skeptical of news stories that ask the readers to play juror based on a reporter's one-sided take, often a lazy one designed for clicks.

Sometimes it's necessary, but most of the time it's just generating a lot of low-information outrage.

(This is apart from the larger question of whether we should abolish the death penalty. But that's not really news.)

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#83

Post by StandardFuture »

themgt wrote: post #38

This case has been so poorly reported by the mainstream media. Just going to quote a couple other sources about the case and Ledell Lee. AK Supreme Court[1]: At approximately 10:50 a.m. on the morning of the murder, Katherine Williams, the victim's mother, received a phone call from her daughter, who lived some four or five houses away. A man had just knocked on the victim's door, asked if her husband was home, and i…

Thank you for supplying this plethora of information with corresponding cited sources. This is not a normally upvoted topic on HN and seems rather strange that it popped to the top page so quickly after being submitted (less than an hour).

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#84

Post by pseudo0 »

themgt wrote: post #38

This case has been so poorly reported by the mainstream media. Just going to quote a couple other sources about the case and Ledell Lee. AK Supreme Court[1]: At approximately 10:50 a.m. on the morning of the murder, Katherine Williams, the victim's mother, received a phone call from her daughter, who lived some four or five houses away. A man had just knocked on the victim's door, asked if her husband was home, and i…

Thanks for this excellent alternate perspective. The inclusion of the facts that CNN conveniently left out makes this verdict look a whole lot more reasonable. But balanced perspectives don't drive outrage clicks I guess.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#86

Post by mikestew »

bananapear wrote: post #75
tyingq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

> This 19 wooden tire thumper lets you know if your tires are fully pressurized by making a thump as it hits the rubber. Just swing the thumper and listen for the sound. If your tires are low in pressure it makes a different sound. Save time checking tire pressure on your rig with this wooden tire thumper. Is this some kind of nonsense to avoid marketing it as a weapon, or do people really use these to check tyre pre…

Yes, if one views the package marketing at your local truck stop (and probably not at your family-friendly Pilot) it is quite obvious that it is a versatile tool, and you might even use it on occasion to check tires.

But, yes, it is manufactured and market to thump one thing: someone’s skull.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#87

Post by btown »

g8oz wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow. Like, I completely fail to comprehend how it's legal in the US judiciary system to ignore any piece of available hard evidence in a case that is punishable by execution? It wasn't "completely ignored". It was presented to the court and the test was requested, and the request was denied. Evidentiary rules are complicated and subject to abuse, yes, but they protect all of us. It's not like we'd be better off if…

When the death penalty is involved I would argue that discovery should in fact be unlimited

More generally there should be more legal paths towards stays of execution even if new evidence does not yet on its own reach the standard necessary for an appeal or retrial. Not having these paths to me seems cruel and unusual.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#88

Post by cortic »

staunch wrote: post #70
qalmakka wrote: post #54

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration. The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for…

1. Execution absolutely guarantees that the criminal will not hurt anyone ever again. In prison, criminals can still hurt prison guards and other prisoners. They can also escape or be freed by mistake. There is a clearly benefit in terms of risk to innocent people. There are certainly innocent people that have been spared harm or death by virtue of executions. I don't view execution as punishment or revenge. I view i…

1, only applies if you are right about the verdict, which we can never be sure about. In fact execution almost guarantees that the criminal will re-offend if he is watching an innocent man being put to death for his crimes.

2, Its significantly more ethical to potentially give some of an innocent persons life back and make some restitution. Than none.

3, There is never cases where we are sure; There can always be new evidence or a new way to look at old evidence that changes the amount guilt or innocence. To think you can be sure for all time about a set of events, even if you were there, is just wrong. If we replace reasonable doubt with no doubt at all then No one would be convicted of anything.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#89

Post by gjsman-1000 »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #81
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Arguably, the torture of prison makes it worse than execution in many cases." This. Whenever somebody says we shouldn't abolish the death penalty, I ask them how it would feel to be locked in a cage for 23 hours a day for up to 60 years (which in most Supermax prisons for people who committed atrocious crimes, is very much the case). If they admit that would be torturous, I then point out that the death penalty is d…

You can't make a human being feel psychological pain since the perception is individual. Once in a prison where their medical, food, and financial needs are 100% assumed by the state, they might find their lives better. If they believed the world was so unjust that they went out and committed horrible crimes in the name of self-satisfaction or their personal beliefs on how to make the world just, they might just sit…

This too. And what's odd is that I hear people who say "Oh, in prison, they're safe from society." That's not true historically. Some of the most dangerous people in history were imprisoned, multiple times, and not killed for fear of public anger - only to get out of prison and wreak havoc.

Hitler was found guilty of treason, but was given a more humane 5 years in prison instead of the death penalty that would have historically been applied to treasonous people. He wrote Mein Kampf, got out of prison, started World War II, and killed millions.

Stalin was exiled to Siberia multiple times for his crimes including bank robbery, kidnappings, and extortion instead of being given death. He came back to Russia for the February Revolution, overthrew the Russian empire, started the Gulag system, and caused the deaths of millions.

For all we know, the Unabomber is in prison right now, but what happens if he escaped? It is not historically impossible, or even implausible, that he couldn't repeat history like many revolutionaries who were arrested, got out, and took over.

There is zero guarantee historically that people in prison are 100% totally safely isolated from society and can't do harm in the future.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#90

Post by traloid »

LocalH wrote: post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

It is justice. Every murderer should be executed by the state IMO.
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