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Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

cnn.com

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Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#71

Post by g8oz »

newacct583 wrote: post #68
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

> Wow. Like, I completely fail to comprehend how it's legal in the US judiciary system to ignore any piece of available hard evidence in a case that is punishable by execution? It wasn't "completely ignored". It was presented to the court and the test was requested, and the request was denied. Evidentiary rules are complicated and subject to abuse, yes, but they protect all of us. It's not like we'd be better off if…

When the death penalty is involved I would argue that discovery should in fact be unlimited

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#72

Post by gjsman-1000 »

staunch wrote: post #70
qalmakka wrote: post #54

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration. The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for…

1. Execution absolutely guarantees that the criminal will not hurt anyone ever again. In prison, criminals can still hurt prison guards and other prisoners. They can also escape or be freed by mistake. There is a clearly benefit in terms of risk to innocent people. There are certainly innocent people that have been spared harm or death by virtue of executions. I don't view execution as punishment or revenge. I view i…

"Arguably, the torture of prison makes it worse than execution in many cases."

This. Whenever somebody says we shouldn't abolish the death penalty, I ask them how it would feel to be locked in a cage for 23 hours a day for up to 60 years (which in most Supermax prisons for people who committed atrocious crimes, is very much the case). If they admit that would be torturous, I then point out that the death penalty is death, abolishing the death penalty is torture and death. Which one is preferable? Which one is more humane?

I think that when you consider how much it costs to house a prisoner in a Supermax prison for that long, the sense of justice on behalf of the victims, and just for the prisoner's own sake to avoid being mentally and psychologically damaged by being solitary for so long (which we scientifically know will happen), the death penalty makes more sense than people give it credit for.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#73

Post by ta988 »

t0mas88 wrote: post #32
ta988 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

Train police to de-escalate and avoid police violence at all costs instead of the US approach where a traffic stop can involve pointing your gun at the suspect...

I've seen part of police training in a big city and was impressed. They have a good portion of their training already on all the different methods of deescalation. With simulators (I tried them it is pretty impressive and immersive), role-play and so on. My guess is that the problem is after training.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#74

Post by carlmr »

g8oz wrote: post #71
newacct583 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow. Like, I completely fail to comprehend how it's legal in the US judiciary system to ignore any piece of available hard evidence in a case that is punishable by execution? It wasn't "completely ignored". It was presented to the court and the test was requested, and the request was denied. Evidentiary rules are complicated and subject to abuse, yes, but they protect all of us. It's not like we'd be better off if…

When the death penalty is involved I would argue that discovery should in fact be unlimited

Even for a life sentence, evidence like this shouldn't be ignored. Eyewitness evidence is one of the most fallible types of evidence.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#75

Post by bananapear »

tyingq wrote: post #47
awb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, here’s the other evidence the judge is referring to: > Asked about the new DNA evidence, Rutledge repeatedly insisted Lee was "lawfully executed" and pointed to the testimony of an eyewitness who purportedly saw Lee enter Reese's home that day and then leave, "erratically," 20 minutes later. There’s also more context here for anyone interested in the case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledell_Lee As fo…

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

> This 19 wooden tire thumper lets you know if your tires are fully pressurized by making a thump as it hits the rubber. Just swing the thumper and listen for the sound. If your tires are low in pressure it makes a different sound. Save time checking tire pressure on your rig with this wooden tire thumper.

Is this some kind of nonsense to avoid marketing it as a weapon, or do people really use these to check tyre pressures instead of… looking at or kicking the tyre? Or even a tyre pressure gauge?

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#76

Post by f38zf5vdt »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #60
qalmakka wrote: post #54

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration. The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for…

"strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment." Well... duh. The death penalty being a punishment is a feature, not a bug. Nobody says the death penalty is about re-education. It's because the person has done something society has judged to be worthy of death as punishment for that crime. If somebody molested my prepubescent daughter, I would say that person s…

The problem of lifetime state issued punishments that are designed to make people feel really bad is their economic insanity. Applying the death penalty in the US involves spending millions in legal and incarceration fees. It also seems to have no deterrence effect on mass murderers, which the US has a high concentration of.

The cost of lifetime imprisonment or execution is outright massive, in the millions over the lifetime of imprisonment. When you look at it in terms of economic output, these sentences are a calamity. For $2m USD spent on achieving a death penalty outcome, you could buy over 600k healthy school lunches for $3 each or pay the salary for one extra school teacher per year over a lifetime.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#77

Post by causality0 »

rhino369 wrote: post #26
endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

I don’t know anything about the specific case, but often DNA from someone else would be totally irrelevant. If I murder someone with my kitchen knife, my wife and her fathers DNA will be on the murder weapon. If you buy a gun from someone and then go shoot someone with it, it might have the sellers DNA on it. So it’s sometimes the case that DNA can’t really create reasonable doubt.

Not just the seller, workers at the manufacturing plant, and any person who walked in the shop and asked to hold it.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#78

Post by reducesuffering »

scrps wrote: post #42
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>at least the person can be freed and compensated. I don't think most innocent people who are freed get any compensation in the U.S.

Do all states have compensation statutes? The federal government, the District of Columbia, and 36 states have compensation statutes of some form. The following 14 states do not: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Wyoming. https://innocenceproject.org/compensating-wrongly-convicted/

Anyone want to summarize the argument of these 14 states that isn't "Yes, we as a society locked up an innocent for 30 years, but now that they're free we don't owe them anything"..?

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#79

Post by gjsman-1000 »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #76
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment." Well... duh. The death penalty being a punishment is a feature, not a bug. Nobody says the death penalty is about re-education. It's because the person has done something society has judged to be worthy of death as punishment for that crime. If somebody molested my prepubescent daughter, I would say that person s…

The problem of lifetime state issued punishments that are designed to make people feel really bad is their economic insanity. Applying the death penalty in the US involves spending millions in legal and incarceration fees. It also seems to have no deterrence effect on mass murderers, which the US has a high concentration of. The cost of lifetime imprisonment or execution is outright massive, in the millions over the…

In my mind, that would be a problem with the justice system, rather than the death penalty as a concept.

Also, as for why it seems to have no deterrence, how many people in the whole United States were killed? Only 22 in 2019, and you probably have never heard the names of even one of those people. If the fact of who was dying, for what crime, was highlighted more often in the media, the statistics may be significantly different.

Like, imagine if CNN and FOX had a simple image of who was dying each day with a two-or-three-sentence description of the crime, each time someone was put to death. To most people, that would be about every 2 weeks. Public awareness would explode. And criminals would have a far greater awareness that they could die for crimes.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#80

Post by riffic »

bananapear wrote: post #75
tyingq wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

> This 19 wooden tire thumper lets you know if your tires are fully pressurized by making a thump as it hits the rubber. Just swing the thumper and listen for the sound. If your tires are low in pressure it makes a different sound. Save time checking tire pressure on your rig with this wooden tire thumper. Is this some kind of nonsense to avoid marketing it as a weapon, or do people really use these to check tyre pre…

it's absolutely a weapon.
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