Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon • Hacker News Board

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#51

Post by awb » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #47

awb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, here’s the other evidence the judge is referring to: > Asked about the new DNA evidence, Rutledge repeatedly insisted Lee was "lawfully executed" and pointed to the testimony of an eyewitness who purportedly saw Lee enter Reese's home that day and then leave, "erratically," 20 minutes later. There’s also more context here for anyone interested in the case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledell_Lee As fo…

A "tire thumper" is often a wooden bat. https://www.amazon.com/RoadPro-RPTT-1-Thumper-19-Inches-Asso...

Ah, OK. I got it mixed up with “tire iron”.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#52

Post by kome » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

Death penalty is barbarism.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#53

Post by ransom1538 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #3

> In an effort to prevent his execution, Lee's attorney sought in the post-conviction appeals process to finally have the DNA evidence in the case tested for the first time. [...] Their request was denied. "The reasoning given by the judge was it wouldn't matter, that there were three people who saw him at or near that neighborhood on that day and time and honestly the DNA just wouldn't matter," Short said. Wow. Like…

"However, the test also "found moderate support" that blood on Lee's left shoe could have belonged to Reese.[17]"

They did find the victims DNA on Lee's shoe. That would need to be admitted as well.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#54

Post by qalmakka » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration.

The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for centuries (at least since the 1700s) as being completely ineffective as a deterrent, and it has been shunned by most of the western world, the USA remaining the last holdout of such a barbaric practice. Would have it be possible for the USA to keep executing prisoners if it wasn't the most powerful country on Earth? IMHO, probably not.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#55

Post by analog31 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #2

How do you execute someone without at least testing DNA on the weapon?

Ruth Bader Ginsberg was apparently quoted as saying: "No well defended person receives the death penalty." One of the issues with death penalty cases is that they require special hand-selected judges and juries who favor the death penalty, and they have a very hard time finding competent defense lawyers.

In fact, an extension is "no well defended person gets convicted," which isn't quite as ironclad, but still works pretty well in practice. This is actually a good thing. Our system was intended to make it hard to convict people.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#56

Post by vmception » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

ta988 wrote: post #19

LocalH wrote: post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

Sanctions.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#57

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

t0mas88 wrote: post #32

ta988 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

Train police to de-escalate and avoid police violence at all costs instead of the US approach where a traffic stop can involve pointing your gun at the suspect...

> instead of the US approach where a traffic stop can involve pointing your gun at the suspect...

Realistically though, for that to work the US needs a sweeping reform of drug and gun laws. Right now, if I'm a drug mule with a ton of meth in my trunk and get stopped on some lonely road, I have the choice between shooting the cop and maybe get away or getting a life in jail for the drugs.

Here in Germany, you usually get out after 5, 6 years as a simple mule, and our cops (unless you're on an international route where cops can claim Schengen border duty rights) can't simply demand to open your trunk unless they have reasonable suspicion - and it's really hard to get your hand on a gun. As a result, our cops don't have to be afraid for their life at a random traffic stop.

There's a reason why cops are so trigger happy in the US, and it goes way beyond shoddy training.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#58

Post by chmod600 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

AcerbicZero wrote: post #16

How does the state justify this behavior in 2017? We execute so few people and it’s already so excessively expensive what’s the logic for refusing to test and retest everything? 20+ years in jail waiting to be executed seems pretty cruel, if not all that unusual IMO. Tangential but I also strongly oppose lethal injection as a method of execution - if the state lacks the will to line up a proper firing squad, it has n…

In some states, a firing squad is an option:

https://nypost.com/2021/05/17/south-carolina-becomes-fourth-...

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#59

Post by seer » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

I’ve recently had the privilege of watching “12 angry men” for the first time. It’s a masterpiece in showing how a legal “sure thing” can be so wrong.

Legal cases are often constructed with testimony, unreliable evidence, and chance. Its an effort to increase likelihood of certainty using very unreliable data. And human intuition really sucks when it comes to probability calculations.

I think that film as no other really captures how wrong we can be, even if we “feel” certain about it. It might sound like a tangent but I think it narrates how errors like this are possible more eloquently than I would ever be able to do on my own.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#60

Post by gjsman-1000 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

qalmakka wrote: post #54

The death penalty is plain hypocrisy, because it strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment. It is not also about preventing dangerous individuals from causing harm on other people because again, that is already plainly achieved by incarceration. The death penalty is 100% state-mandated revenge against the perpetrators of heinous crimes. It is been known for…

"strips away any supposed appearance of justice being about re-education and not about plain punishment."

Well... duh. The death penalty being a punishment is a feature, not a bug. Nobody says the death penalty is about re-education. It's because the person has done something society has judged to be worthy of death as punishment for that crime. If somebody molested my prepubescent daughter, I would say that person should _die_, as _punishment_, and that would be fair and just.

You are operating from the premise that justice is only about re-education. There are plenty of people who reject this view and say that justice is about both re-education and punishment for the crime. And that yes, justice involves punishment, not re-education.

"Would have it be possible for the USA to keep executing prisoners if it wasn't the most powerful country on Earth? IMHO, probably not."

What planet are you living on? There are lots of countries far less powerful than the US who execute far more prisoners than the US. The US executed 22 people, Egypt 32, Iran 251, Saudi Arabia 184, China over 1000, and Iraq over 100 in 2019.