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Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

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Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#51
post #47

I think this is a really good article, but I think that one of the things it misses is that a huge reason the math works out so badly for startup employees is because founders and VCs take the lion's share of the gains. I mean, in my experience at startups, founders typically own around 40% of the equity. The option pool for all other employees is around 10-20%. Now, I certainly believe startup founders deserve far m…

That’s what Wiener suggests in Uncanny Valley, when she describes the windfall when Microsoft bought the GitHub shares she had the option to buy during her time there. It wasn’t life-defining, plus she noticed that many other employees didn’t have enough savings to actually exercise.

Couldnt a bank front the cash to exercise the options? Not familiar with the matter but it seems like an easy thing to get a loan for

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#52
This is mostly accurate but it misses one essential point. And so do many of the responses here. One of the reasons to work at a startup is to get a lot of responsibility for something interesting to you, the sort of thing that wouldn't come your way outside of a startup, for a long time, or maybe ever. The point in the article that comes closest to identifying this regards "calling", but that's not the same thing.

I am 64, and worked in many startups, from 1988 through 2013. My main criteria for evaulating a startup were interesting work, and potential financial reward. I would also try to avoid companies whose business model didn't make sense to me. This worked out pretty well. I started out on an academic path, went to an industrial research lab in the 80s, and this led me to the startup world, where some ideas in software research were used as the basis of innovative products. I wasn't comfortable as a pure academic, and I loved writing software, so this was the right path for me.

At each new company, my thought was: if the business fails, at least I've had fun and worked on interesting software. And this often worked out very well:

- Startup 1: The company was building an innovative product, really a new category of software. I was given responsibility for one huge part of it, and this was my first job ever in which I was being paid to create software (as opposed to research). The company had a modest IPO. Nice payout. In my last couple of years, I started a new project which was rejected by the company. But this led to ...

- Startup 2: I took a summer off, built software based on my ideas, and merged with a startup that had complementary ideas. We needed each other. So much fun. This company was acquired toward the end of the dotcom bubble. Nice payout.

- Startup 3: Post bubble explosion, my choices were a consumer startup or interesting tech at a non-startup. I chose the consumer startup. Pretty dull, although fascinating from a sociological point of view. I left when I got bored and tech startups were happening again. Minor payout a few years later when they were acquired.

- Startup 4: My favorite. Fascinating project, three key pieces, I built one of them. I also really enjoyed building the tools to support the development and troubleshooting work. Acquired by a huge company. Nice payout.

- Startup 5: Really interesting idea. I loved the idea so much that I missed the fact it should have been a feature of a product, not a product by itself. Oops.

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#53
I personally work for startups because I prefer building and owning big projects over maintaining someone else's cog in the corporate clocktower.

I'm not interested in working on the "retention" team, or the "console ad integration" team. I want to build the main thing and feel like I make an impact every day I go to work.

It is possible to do that at a larger business but the odds are stacked against me. Google has a history of killing large projects, and the thought of two years work being cancelled by an accountant because it didn't make enough money just sounds draining on a completely different emotional level.

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#54

Onne important point of startups that pay less than established companies is that it is the best way to get into the industry by outsiders. Sure, if you can choose a FAANG or similarly sized company, startups are not a great bet at all. But FAANG big as they are are a small fraction of the action.

There's also the geographic restrictions if you want to work at a FAANG

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#56

As much as I agree with everything said in this article I wouldn't trade my years at a start up for anything. Both financially and emotionally it was awesome. I didn't get rich, and I worked way too much, but it was awesome. I loved the constant change and chaos. I learned so much, way more than I would've in any other type or work place. I made great friends too. It was as bad as the article, but it was way waaaay b…

I value my experience in startups because you learn so much in a short period of time. Meanwhile, in a recent enterprise gig, I had to participate in weeks of debate and upfront planning to add three non-interesting CRUD endpoints to a service.

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#57
post #17

What is success? The article assumes for the most part that success is mainly monetary, and further it makes the classic mistake of comparing success monetarily to companies like Facebook. Success is different depending on many factors. For example, if a person needs or likes guidance and structure, a startup is likely not a good fit, especially when they are inexperienced. There are some good points about the strong…

It highly depends on the startups, not on people personalities. There are good startups where your work will be appreciated, you will bond with everyone, become friends through the difficulties and hopefully enjoy and celebrate the successes. And there are startups where you will see chaos, poor management, bad attitude to employees, pointing fingers and engineers leaving every couple years. Even startup-oriented personalities cannot stand such workplaces.

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#58
post #51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Wiener suggests in Uncanny Valley, when she describes the windfall when Microsoft bought the GitHub shares she had the option to buy during her time there. It wasn’t life-defining, plus she noticed that many other employees didn’t have enough savings to actually exercise.

Couldnt a bank front the cash to exercise the options? Not familiar with the matter but it seems like an easy thing to get a loan for

I guess it’s still a question of borrowing money for a speculative investment, you just get a significant discount that makes profit more likely.

Depending on your indebtedness (outstanding student loans, mortgages) savings and current earnings a bank could still refuse to lend you enough money, if at all

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#59

Onne important point of startups that pay less than established companies is that it is the best way to get into the industry by outsiders. Sure, if you can choose a FAANG or similarly sized company, startups are not a great bet at all. But FAANG big as they are are a small fraction of the action.

This is a huge one, which won’t work in the best startups, but is a great strategy for someone trying to break in —- leverage a position at a cool tech, bad market fit, middling or even failing startup.

When my Mountain View startup disbanded, most of the team dispersed into Google, Facebook, Salesforce, and other large soon-to-IPO companies. Almost everyone ended up in a better place, and many of us would’ve had a hard time doing so before we joined.

Re: Working at a startup is overrated, both financially and emotionally

#60
post #17

What is success? The article assumes for the most part that success is mainly monetary, and further it makes the classic mistake of comparing success monetarily to companies like Facebook. Success is different depending on many factors. For example, if a person needs or likes guidance and structure, a startup is likely not a good fit, especially when they are inexperienced. There are some good points about the strong…

> The author likely comes from a structured, religious background and prefers the “certainty” of a corporate environment.

I'm a practicing Catholic and have worked either as a freelancer or a startup founder for >90% of my career. Not sure how you're drawing that conclusion but plenty of my peers are religious in a traditional sense and work in startups.

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