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Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

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Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#31
post #21
post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

How much of your salary are you willing to pay to house violent criminals for the rest of their life? Let's not forget that someone else was also murdered too

shut up, miser.

Besides, it’s well known that the CYA process for state murder is more expensive than keeping someone locked up for a lifetime.

You’re just lusting for revenge, not justice

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#32
post #19
post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

Train police to de-escalate and avoid police violence at all costs instead of the US approach where a traffic stop can involve pointing your gun at the suspect...

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#33
post #21
post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

How much of your salary are you willing to pay to house violent criminals for the rest of their life? Let's not forget that someone else was also murdered too

In our current system, death penalty is more expensive than life in prison due to legal costs.

Random source, I believe this is well accepted though. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#34
post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

That just hides the problem. The existence of a death penalty brings a special salience to injustice but is orthogonal to the key injustice in this case.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#35
Concerning DNA testing in general.

Recently there was a case where the Finnish police arrested a person as a suspect for a robbery of a convenience store on basis of DNA evidence: the robber had dropped a plastic glove, presumably to hide fingerprints, on the floor of the store. Officers isolated DNA from the glove, searched archives, found a match with a person who had had some minor offense years prior, and brought him in for a questioning.

It turned out the DNA-matched first suspect was innocent when the police found a second suspect, who confessed to the crime and whose clothes fitted security camera footage of the robbery better. So how the first suspect's DNA arrived on the gloves at the crime scene? The investigators noticed he told he had visited the same mall where the second suspect (according to his testimony) had obtained the gloves prior to the robbery. Based on the security camera footage from the mall, the investigators concluded that the likeliest way the DNA of the first suspect ended up on the gloves the robber because they rode the same escalator.

Like this: https://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload//w_1200,h_1200,f_auto...

The lesson is, humans shed lot of skin cells around. The DNA from incriminating bodily fluids or similar is much better evidence than random DNA.

Source https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11811155 and Google Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#36
post #19
post #12

The death penalty should be abolished, end of discussion. If even a single innocent person is murdered , then an obscene and heinous crime has been committed by the state.

I wonder how this argument would be applied to police murders of innocents. How do we deal with that?

(I assume you mean that by op's argument, we should abolish police)

You make them accountable/actually punishable if they kill someone ?

As to the death penalty, it's a bit different : you need law enforcement, you don't need the death penalty.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#37
post #22

Death is an immutable punishment, that really should be all the logic needed to dissuade people from supporting the death penalty. Locking an innocent person up for n number of years is a massive injustice but at least the person can be freed and compensated.

>at least the person can be freed and compensated.

I don't think most innocent people who are freed get any compensation in the U.S.

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#38
This case has been so poorly reported by the mainstream media. Just going to quote a couple other sources about the case and Ledell Lee. AK Supreme Court[1]:

At approximately 10:50 a.m. on the morning of the murder, Katherine Williams, the victim's mother, received a phone call from her daughter, who lived some four or five houses away. A man had just knocked on the victim's door, asked if her husband was home, and inquired about borrowing some tools. When the victim replied that she had no tools, the man left. According to Katherine, her daughter told her that she was scared and “did not trust this guy.” The victim promised her mother that she would be at her house as soon as she finished curling her hair. Her daughter never arrived.

Andy Gomez lived across the street from the victim, and was also home on the morning in question. While looking out his front window, he saw a man standing at the front door of the victim's residence. He watched the man grab the screen door and “make a B-line inside just real fast.” Approximately twenty minutes later, the man exited Debra's residence. According to Gomez, the man made rapid-head movements, as if he was checking to see if he was being watched. Suspicious, Gomez got in his car to follow the man. He caught up with him on a nearby street, where he observed the man talking to a female with spirals or braids in her hair.

Glenda Pruitt lived at 128 Galloway Circle on the date in question. A man she had seen four or five times and knew as “Skip” walked up her street. Glenda, who wore her hair in long braids, had a short conversation with Skip as he passed by her house. McCullough, Gomez, and Pruitt identified Lee in a photographic lineup as the man they had seen in the victim's neighborhood on the morning of her murder.

Debra's body was discovered in her bedroom at approximately 1:38 p.m. that same date. Three one hundred dollar bills that Debra's father, Stephen Williams, had given to her were missing from her wallet. This money had been part of a larger stack of crisp new bills Williams received in sequential order from the Arkansas Federal Credit Union. At Lee's trial, the State offered evidence that, at 1:53 p.m. on the day of the murder, Lee paid a debt at the Rent-A-Center with a one-hundred dollar bill. Of the three one-hundred dollar bills that the Rent-A-Center received on February 9, one of the bills bore a serial number that was two bills away from one of the bills that the victim's father had turned over to police.

---

AK Supreme Court in Lee's previous rape case[2]:

Evidence -- evidence of rape overwhelming -- trial court did not err in denying motion for directed verdict. -- There was overwhelming evidence of the rape and kidnapping from the testimony of the victim and the emergency-room physician; moreover, the evidence linking appellant to the assault was substantial and included fingerprints taken from the place of attack that matched appellant's and semen in the vaginal swabs taken from the victim and appellant's blood that matched, with the chance of an identical match being one in eighty-three million; the evidence was sufficient to support appellant's conviction for the crimes charged; the trial court did not err in denying his motion for directed verdict.

Lee was convicted of the kidnapping and rape of a seventeen- year-old girl in Jacksonville, Arkansas. The victim was abducted from her sister's home on the night of November 27, 1990, and was raped in a wooded area behind the house. The victim described her attacker as a tall, black male, but was unable to identify him because he prevented her from seeing his face during the attack. Evidence from a rape-kit examination performed on the victim was submitted to the state crime laboratory for analysis. Hair combings from the victim's clothing contained two Negroid hairs, and semen was identified in vaginal swabs taken from the rape examination. After the analysis, the rape-kit evidence was stored by the state crime lab in a secure freezer in May, 1991. Also, two days after the rape, Jacksonville police officers processed the victim's home for evidence and took latent fingerprints from inside and outside the residence. The case remained in an inactive status until Lee became a suspect in February, 1993.

Hand prints and fingerprints, hair samples, and a blood sample were taken from Lee in February, 1993. Lee's palm print matched a palm print found on a bedroom window at the victim's home. Lee's blood was tested along with the victim's blood and the vaginal swabs from the rape kit. The FBI agent who performed the DNA analysis concluded that the probability of the assailant being someone other than Lee was one in eighty-three million from the black population. The palm print and the DNA profile evidence essentially comprised the state's case against Lee.

---

The irony here is what actually happened was eye witnesses and direct evidence of the $100 bill connected Lee to Reese's murder ... after that arrest his blood/DNA was sampled and that connected him to additional unsolved cases of raping two women and raping and murdering another woman. He was convicted of both counts of rape, and the murder charge only dropped after a hung jury since he had already been sentenced to death for Resse's murder.

The DNA evidence examined by ACLU/Innocence project absolutely doesn't demonstrate he was unjustly convicted in this case, and if you examine the totality of the evidence I don't think it even raises a reasonable doubt. They even found moderate support for his DNA on the murder weapon and the victim's blood on his shoe. Finding someone else's DNA is being dramatically overstated in importance.

[1] https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ar-supreme-court/1322909.html

[2] https://law.justia.com/cases/arkansas/supreme-court/1996/cr9...

Re: Four years after a man was executed, someone else’s DNA found on murder weapon

#40
post #29
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not possible. It would be horrible idea. Law is a process, punishing people who do their duty for the errors in the process when they have not been involved in misconduct would not be justice. Death penalty itself is wrong.

> Law is a process, punishing people who do their duty for the errors in the process when they have not been involved in misconduct would not be justice. There are tons of ways to perform badly without misconduct. Companies punish/fire/demote/etc employees who underperform all the time, for example. Or who make bad decisions consistently. Or even a single costly bad decision. Why should "life of death judging" offici…

The judge's job is to make a decision based on the evidence in front of them. The judge has to weigh the evidence based on their training and knowledge.

That decision might prove in hindsight to be incorrect, based on new information or a fresh perspective. The judge cannot be held accountable for that.

We accept this as part of the job, that difficult decisions cannot always be made perfectly within any legal framework, but still need to be decided.

If this results in disproportionate punishment, the system is at fault - the system of laws - not the judge, who was doing their job.

The judge's decision might alternatively prove to be corrupt, in that the judge has been influenced by something outside of their training, knowledge of the law, and the evidence. The judge should be held accountable for that.

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