Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor • Hacker News Board

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#11

Post by Consultant32452 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

I think this suffers from a causation direction bias. Maybe people with the choice mindset wind up in positions of wealth and power because of this mindset. I can only speak anecdotally, but the hand full of millionaires I know all grew up lower middle class, and they all have choice mindset.

I think the worst kinds of people create a false dichotomy here where either everything is choice or everything is a product of externalities.

It does seem to me that choice mindset leads to better outcomes within whatever context the person is in. It’s extremely unlikely to result in a poor person from a third world country running a Fortune 500. But within their context they are likely to have better outcomes than people who externalize credit/blame.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#12

Post by elliekelly » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

I thought this for the longest time. An embarrassingly long time. Then I volunteered with a program that helps people who qualify for EITC to prepare their taxes and budget how they’ll use their tax return to “get them out of their situation”.

Person after person came in, we did their taxes, and then we went over their expenses and each case was a frustrating puzzle that was impossible to solve. There just wasn’t enough money for all of the basic necessities let alone even a bit of savings. And these are folks who worked full time. I was a student at the time and I remember being annoyed that not once had this situation come up in the personal finance classes I’d taken.

It really changed my whole perspective. It was honestly the first time I’d ever even considered the possibility that someone could do everything “right” and still be poor. There’s a myth that you can financial-plan your way out of economic hardship but it’s simply not true.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#13

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

aspaviento wrote: post #5

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

I remember a politician complaining about having difficulties with a salary of 6000€/mo. Some people live in a bubble so far from the real world that almost seems fantasy.

It depends on your liabilities and other aspects like age.

6,000 EUR per month is $7,300 USD per month is tough if you’re a new pharmacist in the US and need to repay $300k of student loans and make up for 4 to 6 years of lost income and catch up retirement savings, as an example.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#14

Post by phone8675309 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

aspaviento wrote: post #5

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

I remember a politician complaining about having difficulties with a salary of 6000€/mo. Some people live in a bubble so far from the real world that almost seems fantasy.

I had a coworker at my first programming job complaining how hard it was to make it on a $175,000 a year salary in the Midwest.

It was nearly three times what I was making and I thought "I can manage with so much less, wtf is this person’s problem?"

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#15

Post by tclancy » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #11

I think this suffers from a causation direction bias. Maybe people with the choice mindset wind up in positions of wealth and power because of this mindset. I can only speak anecdotally, but the hand full of millionaires I know all grew up lower middle class, and they all have choice mindset. I think the worst kinds of people create a false dichotomy here where either everything is choice or everything is a product o…

Isn’t this exactly what we are talking about? You’re assuming the same “choices” exist for everyone.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#16

Post by Consultant32452 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #15

Consultant32452 wrote: post #11

I think this suffers from a causation direction bias. Maybe people with the choice mindset wind up in positions of wealth and power because of this mindset. I can only speak anecdotally, but the hand full of millionaires I know all grew up lower middle class, and they all have choice mindset. I think the worst kinds of people create a false dichotomy here where either everything is choice or everything is a product o…

Isn’t this exactly what we are talking about? You’re assuming the same “choices” exist for everyone.

I explicitly stated the opposite when I talked about people living in different contexts.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#17

Post by Bukhmanizer » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

I’d like to see the unpaywalled article. Unfortunately the abstract linked doesn’t go into any details about the methods.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#18

Post by smitty1e » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

mmsc wrote: post #7

austincheney wrote: post #4

Poor Americans often don't understand what it's like to be poor. Spending extended time in a severely damaged third world country absent all security opens all kinds of perspectives.

You're not wrong. But, poor Americans often don't understand what it's like to be poor, because of the abundance of credit and debt.

And resources.

I was sobered in Afghanistan about a decade back by the number of economic problems that must be managed in parallel to go from "tough 'hood" to successful country.

On the other hand, we seem to flirt with going the other direction. May we sober up.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#19

Post by fnord77 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

I grew up poor. We were on food stamps. Most of my adult life I have been making an upper-middle class salary. I have forgotten what it is like to be poor other than some unpleasant memories.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#20

Post by fnord77 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

aspaviento wrote: post #5

FriedrichN wrote: post #3

A more distant but very wealthy family member once said that people wouldn't be so poor if they just saved up money. That perfectly illustrated the difficulty rich people have understanding poor people to me. I was really young, but that really stuck with me.

I remember a politician complaining about having difficulties with a salary of 6000€/mo. Some people live in a bubble so far from the real world that almost seems fantasy.

a national politician needs two homes - one in the capital and one in the location they represent. That alone would eat up 6000€ especially if either place is expensive.