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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#781

Post by belorn »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #638
belorn wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the employee is into domination role playing in the bedroom. Should we fire such employees in the case they brought their interest into the work place and created a toxic environment? I could imagine how any generic law that tried to address this would break horrible in all the multiple ways people have opinion, views and hobbies that if brought to work would create a toxic environment and be grounds for firi…

I'm not sure what you're arguing. If someone is into domination role playing and "brought that interest into the work place" (not quite sure what that means) then there is a very, very good chance they will get fired, and indeed many many people have been fired for unwelcome sexual discussions at work.

Should we fire every such person who is or even has been into domination role playing, not because they have brought it to work, but because they might do it at some time in the future.

The person who got fired by apple did not bring his book to work. He did not talk about the book at work. The action for which he was fired occurred before he was even employed.

Put it in an other way, are people who is into domination role playing suitable to be in a leader role? Can they represent the diverse employees at work? Is the world views expressed in that sexual behavior acceptable in a public figure?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#782

Post by blablabla123 »

I try to keep personal interests and views for myself while staying open to discuss any politics that the company is involved in. That can range from internal "woke topics" to external matters like doing business in countries with governments that don't care. The important thing is to stick to facts instead of personal opinion. It's not so difficult and if more people did it, the workplace would be much more pleasant for everyone.

I'm always confused that politics at work can now mean either internal corporate career politics or politics in society. Still, I think it applies to both types.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#783

Post by ohyes »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs.

See, that right there is a political viewpoint.

Some would argue that work is about fulfilling the needs of society to produce necessary and useful goods and services, the aims of the entrepreneurs take a backseat when they harm society.

Others might argue work is entirely about the needs of the workers, that the work game is mostly about the individuals who are there.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#784

Post by fires10 »

EMM_386 wrote: post #206
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> Color me naive, but shouldn’t what happens in the office be about the office??? Yes I don't understand any of this either. Maybe I'm just an old dog who's been in software engineering for 20+ years, but when I get hired by a company they exchange one thing (money) for what I can offer (programming). If I am uncomfortable with what they are asking me to do regarding my skill of programming, I can quit at any time an…

Not everyone has the option of going somewhere else. I would like to see that as a viable option for everyone. I have often wondered if we ensured everyone had a viable option how it would allow us to change discrimination laws. An employer of last resort that you can legitimately support yourself with. Not poverty wages.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#785

Post by 627467 »

> Alphabet, Google’s parent, had to deal with another internal petition circulating among employees, this one calling on the firm’s leadership to make a statement “recognising the violence in Palestine and Israel”.

:facepalm: corporations, like nation states, now(ish) are lobbied to take geopolitical stances.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#786

Post by [deleted] »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#787

Post by [deleted] »

darkerside wrote: post #756
koonsolo wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the expression 'no politics or religion'? That is because you can't create a nice and fun environment where people start clashing over these topics. You can discuss personal things, make jokes with your colleagues, etc. I think that is a very healthy environment. An environment where people have strong opinions on politics an religion is never a nice environment. Never. So I think it's fair that in a work…

People with strong opinions can still talk about them and get along. See every time interfaith community leaders collaborate on a food drive, charity event, etc. The key is to remember that not everyone agrees with your strong opinion, or even cares about that, and that shouldn't make them any less important to you as a person. And yes, these environments exist, I've worked in them.

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#788

Post by yanderekko »

gryfft wrote: post #682
nick-of-time wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics is an expression of your moral values. It's always been an important part of a person.

People who huffily decry "politics" also tend to have political beliefs which they feel are apolitical. Examining and unpacking those beliefs is "political," however, so that the net result is "I just don't want my politics questioned or examined, even when it affects other people."

Yes, I indeed just don't want my politics questioned or examined, even when my critic has a questionable narrative of how it affects other people. I see how this is commonly leveraged as a superficial excuse to evangelize reluctant parties. "Silence is violence."

I don't want to be subjected to company-sponsored political struggle sessions, nor do I want to subject others to company-sponsored political struggle sessions. Yes, this can superficially be construed of as a political belief. If you want to find some other mutually-agreeable term for the idea that one's workplace should not be dominated by partisan evangelizing, then I'm open to suggestions.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#789

Post by [deleted] »

hluska wrote: post #52
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

I can’t help but wonder if the tech industry did this to itself. Tech companies offer so many amenities at the office from free food, to laundry, to massages that the line between office and home has blurred. Maybe the solution is making offices feel like offices and normalizing forty hour work weeks?

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#790

Post by chitowneats »

madrox wrote: post #304
mk81 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because the genie is out the bottle. For better or worse, many tech companies have worked hard to make your workplace your social hub in an effort to retain employees and get them to work longer hours. That's already happened, so now we have to deal with the good and bad that came from that. Going backward to how things were is as realistic as uninventing Twitter.

That dynamic has not existed since March 2020.
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