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PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

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Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the early 2000s - up until maybe 2010 or so (probably a bit later) PHP was the clear leader for anyone who wanted to get something done. There was Rails and ASP.net and Java (I don’t remember anything else that was super popular) but PHP was a million times faster to develop in. Anything you wanted was explained in depth in the first Google result. You want auth? A chat server? File management? You could get…

If you need to cook an egg, you can serve 1 request per second with PHP and use your CPU as heat source.

It's funny you say that. I was toying with PHP not long ago and managed to squeze 50k requests per second on an old server using a pure php server library called Workerman.

And by squeze I mean copy 30 lines or so from their hello world tutorial and run: php start.php

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#102
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

I feel people completely forgot -- for the right reasons obviously -- the disaster that was IHTML. https://web.archive.org/web/20030526173831/http://www.idude.... run.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#103
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same story for me. Moving from PHP to Python was really difficult conceptually for me. For years fiddling with Apache configs and uploading files via FTP was web development. I sometimes find myself thinking about teenagers getting started nowadays and the accessibility of development, but I suppose there are a lot more resources now than the early 2000s for some enterprising kids to get started.

Yes, but at the same time, web development was a much simpler process back then to get into and actually start to learn. No virtual machines to have to learn, or npm, or git, or... just code in php/html in notepad and maybe some raw basic javascript until js frameworks started becoming a thing and upload it via ftp. I mean, you didn't even have css to worry about...you just threw everything into a table! (lol!) There…

Nearly 20 years ago I wrote a dynamic listing page in PHP that renders an html table from data in MySQL.

Today it still works.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#104
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone proposed a conspiracy theory for why the rapid application development tools of the middle 1990s became extinct in reaction to plotting by corporate interests in perpetuating the value of consulting services and the high salaries of CS graduates, I would buy the hardback edition immediately. VB, Visual Age, Delhi, Genera on Tru64, RDB and RMS and DEC TM giving you schema less (noSQL to taste) wan -clustere…

> why the rapid application development tools of the middle 1990s became extinct RAD tools were focused on Desktop application development and web suddenly took over everything.

Yes, but the web was noticeably inferior as an application platform until html5, jQuery, Node and modern JS frameworks were being leveraged. But the web didn't require expensive licensing, and everyone by the late 90s had a web browser.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#106
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. The implications of what this meant for security were very important too, but in a negative way. Instead of an application with a single or few small entry points (like CGI), you could just design your PHP app with a bunch of files spread across the exposed public directory structure, and for a long time this was the reigning paradigm for PHP. This,…

I'm not convinced that security is actually that much higher. I agree with your examples, but the complexity of most environments now is such that you almost have to know what you're doing in order to attempt to stay secure. How often do people leak things via S3 because they couldn't set the permissions properly? Same thing as you mention, except it's yet another layer that has to be maintained. I went from Perl to…

> How often do people leak things via S3 because they couldn't set the permissions properly? Same thing as you mention, except it's yet another layer that has to be maintained.

I think the fact that it's another layer and not essential for anything is a pretty good reason why it's not necessarily the same.

What I'm talking about is the default or minimal install complexity and how that affected what was to come. I'm not sure anyone considers S3 a default or minimal config for a website or code execution on the web.

I do agree it's much easier to add complexity these days though, and there are plenty of resources that probably encourage it.

> mod_perl was available, but I was pretty well switched to PHP by the time I really looked into that.

You didn't miss much. While mod_perl was first released within a year or two of the first version of PHP, it works in a fundamentally different way, as wasn't really suitable for shared hosting, so it was never going to have the same popularity. mod_perl keeps a perl interpreter persistent per Apache thread, but it doesn't (can't) really completely separate one request from the next, and given's the prevalence of globals that Perl lets you tweak that affect how many built-ins function (and the ability to redefine portions of the symbol table), it wasn't really suitable for shared environments, just for applications which were mostly the sole purpose of the webserver.

In fact, the way it works is sort of to just take any file set to be handled by it, and eval the content of it in a sub (to deal with some scoping issues), and display the output. As you might imagine, this required special care to not accidentally create closures and pollute subsequent request handling with data in variables from prior requests.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#108
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradoxically, PHP's stateless architecture is also what makes it dog-slow with large frameworks such as Laravel. Now you have to load the whole framework with every request.

Sort of, but you don't need to parse it. Anyone using PHP in serious prod uses something like memcached/opcache to skip parsing, which speeds up TTFB typically by about 200x.

Even a bog standard LAMP setup has opcache enabled nowadays.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#109
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

It basically did for simple web programming what visual basic did for Windows desktop toys: allowed you to throw some UI together (drag & drop components in the VB case, any old HTML with links or forms for PHP) then start stringing bit of code in haphazardly to link it together. No need to learn a more complex compiler or other build tools, worry about configuring CGI or other web server tech (unless running PHP you…

Injecting strings from user input into generated HTML? Sure, to hell with checking if it contains script tags and/or onclick= attributes, or perform any kind of escaping alltogether for that matter.

Re: PHP 3.0 Final is out (1998)

#110
post #25
post #11

It’s hard to explain just how much easier PHP made creating a dynamic web site back in the 90s / early 00s. You drop a file in your public web server folder and you’re done. Prior was CGI Perl scripts that hacked together how to access session and rest data. Or you had to develop in C. PHP had native support for the web. It also eliminate the need for an app server. I’m still not certain even today, if anything exist…

Definitely. I started with PHP when I was only 12 or 13 years old. Adding some logic inside your .html files (mostly includes, that were like magic back then[1]), renaming to .php and upload them to the server using FTP was so simple. A few years later, when I had to set up a lot of things to run Django I was surprised at how hard it was. PHP was simple to use, and to understand its logic, because it was embeded into…

I used SSI to include things like footers, but pho was great if you were into front end stuff
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