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Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

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Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#11

This does not take into account the company they work for. Bosses at a company that pay 40% more than average have more options that bosses that work at companies that pay 10% less than average.

to make people work for 10% less than average is a real managerial art.

they use irrelevant motivations (like 'are you a man', 'you gave a word'), deceive people, flatter, promote jerks to make tension in the team and so forth.

and even make some bullshit (rarely good things, i think) done. at least what i see here in my city/country.

it's easy to have power based on money, but sometimes not that efficient, they think.

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#13
post #4

I've had 3 kinds of bosses: 1. Hardass who pushes everyone to the limit, tends to micro-manage, frequently overrules consensus with his own views. 2. Total pushover who agrees with everything. Constantly seeks consensus and rule by democracy, never pushes anyone and just tries to be everyone's friend. 3. Somewhere in between the two above. Seeks consensus and lets people make mistakes in order to help them learn. Som…

The thing about #1 is that they probably aren't trying to help the company succeed. It's more likely that they're trying to take the company for a ride to meet their own ends. Any success they have is only going to be in the short term and only in the interests of posturing. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can get away with this because their companies by and large are theirs.

While #2 isn't a very effective leader, their heart is usually at least in the right place. Plus, given the right people, it's amazing what you can get accomplished by simply leaving them alone and letting them do their job.

But then again, I'm of the opinion that we focus too much on the leadership and not enough on the people. Maybe I'm just naive. Great leaders are like surfers riding a big wave. It's easy to get distracted by the surfer and forget that the wave is really the important part.

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#14
This almost sounds like a comparison between growth of China and India, where China just gets the things done when it needs to while India lags behind trying to gather people's consensus; and I believe that neither of them are correct. Reasons are pretty simple. If you are a bully, things are bound to fall apart sooner or later while if you are a total pushover, you don't even own what you are doing. I have seen both the approaches working and then failing, at work. As a boss, being a bully can only work when you are sure that you have hired the last pieces of talent who did not have any other option. Well, if that is the case then you better be a bully. Otherwise if you have a got an extremely talented programmer whom you want to run on your terms, then it ain't gonna happen. Pushover - this can only work when the boss has got another talented boss in disguise amongst his own workers who actually works and makes the decisions on behalf of him. It happens; but if everyone is unsure and starts making his own decision then failure is inevitable. In fact, contrary to the article, push over boss has a better chance of sharp success in case he finds a brilliant worker who does not hesitate in taking the lead. Of-course that is not going to work for ever, but might work long enough.

Edit: In fact, as I think about it more, a pushover/fair boss does not have a better but a far better chances of succeeding.

1. A pushover boss earns respect because he listens to everyone - Win

2. The probability of finding an extremely talented worker is equal for both kind of bosses - Win

3. The chance of retaining a talent is higher just because he does not interfere much in the work - Win

4. The chance of succeeding the project is higher because he lets other (might be better) people in team make/alter the decision - Win

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#15
post #5

I suspect the etiology is quite simple - if somebody is behaving like an ass and getting away with it, it must be because they are powerful, otherwise somebody else would stop them. And so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is easily shut down by anyone with a modicum of introspection: "or maybe he's just a self-important ass?"

Is this asking too much of people?

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#16
post #13
post #4

I've had 3 kinds of bosses: 1. Hardass who pushes everyone to the limit, tends to micro-manage, frequently overrules consensus with his own views. 2. Total pushover who agrees with everything. Constantly seeks consensus and rule by democracy, never pushes anyone and just tries to be everyone's friend. 3. Somewhere in between the two above. Seeks consensus and lets people make mistakes in order to help them learn. Som…

The thing about #1 is that they probably aren't trying to help the company succeed. It's more likely that they're trying to take the company for a ride to meet their own ends. Any success they have is only going to be in the short term and only in the interests of posturing. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can get away with this because their companies by and large are theirs. While #2 isn't a very effective leader, their…

"While #2 isn't a very effective leader, their heart is usually at least in the right place"

You know what they say the road to hell is paved with. Lots of people have great motives, but end up achieving nothing but destruction.

Yeah, I definitely agree that for the hardass and the in-between leaders there's a lot of ego involved, and they're trying to "ride" the team to achieve personal ends. The thing is, that frequently tends to work well. It's not necessarily a pleasant environment to work in, but it's kind of like climbing a mountain. It's no fun while you're doing it, but once you've achieved it you can be proud of it for the rest of your life.

I don't think Steve Jobs was trying to make a fun work environment for people - he was trying to push the creation of great products. Conversely, the Michael Scott type boss who tries to be everyone's friend has no personal motives (beyond being liked) and thus no incentive to push for great results.

I guess ultimately building something great is really really hard work, and it can often be really unpleasant.

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#17
As a boss you consider many aspects of your action. You can be friendly or aggressive, but every decision in my opinion is based on the individual or the team you are in conversation with.

You don't treat everyone equally even if it sounds unfair.

Some guys are reliable and do their best, some just act like junkies and have to be "regulated".

If you are democratic and friendly you can find yourself in situations where your guys feel they can just overrule your decisions... that is when you turn into a hardass monster. :)

As a boss you are the only one with the pressure to deliver something as a complete product. The team just feels portions of it. This will and should make you act as required in any situation.

Still, no matter what your style is... you have to be consistent and reliable. This is crucial for earning trust.

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#18
post #13
post #4

I've had 3 kinds of bosses: 1. Hardass who pushes everyone to the limit, tends to micro-manage, frequently overrules consensus with his own views. 2. Total pushover who agrees with everything. Constantly seeks consensus and rule by democracy, never pushes anyone and just tries to be everyone's friend. 3. Somewhere in between the two above. Seeks consensus and lets people make mistakes in order to help them learn. Som…

The thing about #1 is that they probably aren't trying to help the company succeed. It's more likely that they're trying to take the company for a ride to meet their own ends. Any success they have is only going to be in the short term and only in the interests of posturing. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates can get away with this because their companies by and large are theirs. While #2 isn't a very effective leader, their…

> their heart is usually at least in the right place

I've normally seen that people in role #2 are just not prepared for the hard conversations that come with being a manager. Sometimes, you have to call people out on poor or below-potential performance. If you do, I've found that most people will either pick up the pace or quit. If you don't, well... things get bad.

The unfortunate chaps in role #2 leave poor performers around to poison the team (most coworkers slack off when they see somebody else slacking, particularly if you have the corporate-standard opaque compensation schemes), avoiding dealing with negative actions until either somebody else comes around and fixes it or the team is killed. I was in this situation once, where a string of #2s had been managing a decently-sized development team I was merging with and it took several months for me to sort through the people, clean house, and build a functional team again.

You know the worst part? There were a few fantastic people who had utterly languished due to being surrounded by mediocrity. On the other hand, that was also the best part, because the "let's talk about how we're going to get you working on bigger and better things" talk is much more enjoyable than the, "concretely, we expect you to be doing X, Y, and Z at your level, none of which you are" talk.

Type #2 managers leave a trail of broken teams and wasted potential in their wake. I respect few things as well as working for an upper-manager who can pick up on that behavior and nip it in the bud. At least, I think I would, if I'd ever seen it :-)

Re: Why Fair Bosses Fall Behind

#19
Our society is built upon capitalist competition. Being fair doesn't count unless you can see its impact on the bottom-line and unfortunately it's difficult to quantify something that's qualitative. Also, fair leaders are rarely shown in tv, propaganda, etc. which makes it harder for people to see them as having power.
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