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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#501

Post by calvinmorrison »

monoideism wrote: post #417
duped wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if we're talking personally, the end of my rope is insurrection. I would not tolerate sympathies towards the events of January 6th. If my manager or other senior staff began expressing them I would have to voice my thoughts on the subject and begin sending resumes. The idea that both sides are equal is just fallacious. One side is advocating to be more aware of systematic racism and the other tried to incite r…

> One side is advocating to be more aware of systematic racism and the other tried to incite revolt while rejecting the validity of our last election. One is advocating for a large discussion and the other is working against democracy. On some level, you must be aware that the other side frames these issues differently than you do, but with the same ferver and honesty as you. I happen to believe you're both spouting…

Nytimes did an infograph on political bubbles, ie are your neighbors all Democrats or Republicans? Turns out Republicans are the ones who are less likely to live in a bubble of conservative beliefs.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#502

Post by StanislavPetrov »

wpietri wrote: post #374
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

>I think it's a giant mistake to see a workplace as a place where the entrepreneur is a tiny god-king.

It isn't about being a god king, its about people being capable of collectively doing a task without saddling the execution of that task with all of their personal, political and emotional baggage.

>If people want to play-act as robots, I won't deny them their kink. But that's not what interests me about work, and it's not the kind of person I hire.

If people want to play-act as priests of some new secular religion, I won't deny them their kink. But that's not what interests me about work. What interests me about work is collecting a paycheck so that I can pay my bills and have the economic freedom to pursue my personal interests when I'm not at work. The idea that those with whom I work feel entitled (much less obligated) to police my personal interests (that are completely unrelated to my time on the job) is anathema to me. Those are not the kind of people I would hire, or work with.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#503

Post by catgary »

jckahn wrote: post #447
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the argument is that it's some separate sphere entirely disconnected from normal human interaction. It's like saying "the point of a movie night is to hang out and enjoy a movie together". If me and my friends were halfway through a movie, and I stood up and staged a loud political protest against something one of the characters said, my friends would be pretty rightfully unhappy with me.

That’s fair, but if a character in said movie was making brazenly anti-Semitic views (for instance) I think it would be reasonable to share that it made you uncomfortable and have a discussion about it at some reasonable time shortly thereafter.

Yeah, once I was watching the Ottoman Lieutenant with my wife and parents - I turned it off because the film seemed to be denying the Armenian genocide.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#504

Post by rootusrootus »

eloff wrote: post #318
sergiomattei wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not any of those things. It's the fact that your generation likely faced a much different set of problems than the current one does. Every generation fails to understand the upcoming one. Common thought throughout the ages.

You don't even know what generation I am. I'm younger than you'd guess. You didn't address any of my arguments, other than to say it's just my perception, which I admit, is a possibility.

This entire thread is a trainwreck. I feel like I just walked into a slightly more polite version of Voat.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#505

Post by vl »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

This is nothing new, in fact SV companies have a history of firing people for political beliefs.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#506

Post by ErikVandeWater »

greesil wrote: post #484
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the quote does not demonstrate the delineation between work and non-work. It's about in-group vs out-group bias. If the quote were about Nazi's coming home and hanging out with ethnically diverse friends, that would demonstrate considerable work vs home culture.

I'm sorry, but I disagree

Substantiate it if you're going to comment.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#507

Post by furyofantares »

nostromo wrote: post #483
furyofantares wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I perceive the cartoon yellow emojis to be white, an alternative interpretation never occurred to me at all. The first time a black coworker gave a black thumbs-up reaction on slack, I noticed I didn't want to +1 it. I didn't identify with it, it didn't feel like it was coming from me. This was a strong reaction and totally unexpected, and it was a "holy shit" moment as well, because I suddenly imagined how excluded…

Emojis weren't even created by white people, and were a cartoon yellow in some of the first Japanese sets. Here's SoftBank's 2006 emoji set (well before any western companies got involved): https://emojipedia.org/softbank/2006/

I may have misunderstood you, but those SoftBank emojis at least don't look cartoon yellow at all.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#508

Post by langitbiru »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

I think in the future, people will start to embrace pseudonymous accounts. People will not share any opinions with their real identities. But they'll do it with their pseudonymous accounts.

This can go further than sharing opinions. People's livelihood will be based on their pseudonymous accounts. It happens already in cryptocurrencies projects. Some accounts who work in these projects are pseudonymous accounts. They can accept payment via cryptocurrencies.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#509

Post by hn_user82179 »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #411
ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

> You'd need to convince workers to not believe that someone who says sexist stuff in a book is going to cause a problem for them.

This resonated with me. Anecdotally, I sometimes wonder if small, unpleasant interactions (e.g. getting talked over multiple times in a meeting) have anything to do with my gender (I'm the only woman on my team) or are accidental/benign. I usually assume they're benign because I like my colleagues and they haven't otherwise seemed to think I'm incompetent or weak. It would be hard to give someone like Antonio García Martínez the benefit of the doubt and I'd constantly be on guard, specifically because he's already established that he thinks Bay Area women are weak and "generally full of shit". It would start off as an exhausting work environment even on day 1.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#510

Post by ridaj »

nradov wrote: post #379
ridaj wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be your point of view, but can you hire a lot of people with this attitude? Companies in tech successfully attract talent on the basis that they provide an opportunity to "have impact in the world". I work in tech and I hear this all the time from candidates in interviews, when asking why do you want to work here. Nobody says they just want to make a lot of money for the shareholders and a little for themsel…

That's what candidates say in interviews because that's what they think they're supposed to say. How many are telling the truth?

I also see it very often in internal survey open answers as the answer for why you enjoy working here. These are anonymous, there is no incentive to lie.
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