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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#491

Post by courtf »

This gets tricky when employers ask workers to internalize the company values (incorporating them into their identities). Probably helps with retention, but then you get everything else that comes with identity. If you represent the company, and vice versa, it's only natural to want the company to use its influence in ways that embody that, even if it seems superfluous from a purely financial standpoint.

There's a case to be made that we should tone back the importance of work in all of our lives, which would potentially help with these issues. I understand the need to defend minorities from bigots, and even from milder, less intentional forms of discrimination/bias that can accumulate over the years to cause a strong drag on your life. I still like to think there are ways to do that without a lot of outrage and constant, inane meetings, but who knows.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#492

Post by greesil »

Aunche wrote: post #347
hypertexthero wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The proximity of his workplace and his home is convenient, but there is a serious political motivation underlying it, too. When Steidl was a teen-ager, he spent several weeks volunteering at Auschwitz, clearing paths for visitors and sleeping in a former barracks. His father had served in the German Army, and Steidl participated in a program that had been established, he said, to show young Germans “what the paren…

People don't spontaneously decide that conducting murder in a concentration camp is a morally acceptable career path. The Nazis succeeded in the first place because they injected their politics into every aspect of life. Politics-free spaces create additional friction that impedes the rise of radical ideology.

That would be true if there was no difference between seeking equality and justice vs. scapegoating Naziesque goose-stepping grievances. I say this as someone who gets annoyed by politically active coworkers. Not all ideologies are created equally.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#493

Post by throwkeep »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #475
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

Do you have quotes that are sexist? The only quote I have seen in articles that is supposedly sexist is about Bay Area women.

People are just taking quotes out of context:

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#494

Post by ramblerman »

Tycho wrote: post #30

The weird thing is how it’s all seems so co-ordinated. As if the HR departments of every firm get their marching orders from some central advocacy group.

They are. Focault and critical race theory embedded themselves deeply in a lot of non STEM degrees a while ago, which is where HR candidates usually come from.

That generation is now running HR in a lot of these companies.

> Critical race theory scholars question foundational liberal concepts such as Enlightenment rationality, legal equality, and Constitutional neutrality, and challenge the incrementalist, step-by-step approach of traditional civil-rights discourse;[12] they favor a race-conscious approach to social transformation, rejecting liberal embrace of affirmative action, color blindness, role modeling, or the merit principle; and an approach that relies more on political organizing, in contrast to liberalism's reliance on rights-based remedies.[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#495

Post by ncpa-cpl »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

From the Recurse Center manual:

If you see racism, sexism, etc. outside of RC, please don’t bring it in. For example, please don’t start a discussion about the latest offensive comment from Random Tech Person Y.

Everyone who comes to RC should have the same opportunity to focus on programming, and people from oppressed groups often find discussions of racism, sexism, etc. particularly hard to tune out.

There are many places to discuss and debate these issues, but there are few where people can avoid them. RC is one of those places.

https://www.recurse.com/social-rules#no-subtle-isms

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#496

Post by mmcgaha »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #470
narrator wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would never be able to hire a felon for anything since on that theory, the felon had done something outside of work that being a criminal act, might scare someone at work who had to work around them, even though their behavior at work was perfect.

I’ll care about sexists losing jobs when society cares about felons not being able to find employment decades after the fact. What had been happening instead was that sexists were failing upwards, until recently when employee power finally has a say in who works with them

Companies that exclude felons from job consideration may want to rethink their policy.

https://www.eeoc.gov/newsroom/bmw-pay-16-million-and-offer-j...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#497

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

lanstin wrote: post #459
0xy wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

I don’t think that is really true. The government can’t suppress speech due to political disagreements with it but private individuals (and “legal individuals” aka corporations) can discriminate based on political beliefs, even religious beliefs. Gender, race, national origin, these are traditional protected categories, and we are adding more as a consensus grows that other sorts of prejudice are harmful to the socia…

Point of order, in the US, religious belief/creed is a protected class. You can't fire someone for being Jewish, for example.

On the other hand, certain beliefs of certain religions would be potentially incompatible with workplace discrimination law, including law that protects other protected classes. So it gets a little murky. One thing you can say is that if you have a religious belief that isn't causing you to bother other people, that's protected in the U.S.

You are correct about political beliefs, though. At least as far as I can find, political affiliation is not protected. But even if it were, this would necessarily not cover all possible political beliefs, for the same murkiness reasons as above.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#498

Post by ridethebike »

0xy wrote: post #428
ir123 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. That's where you are wrong. He wrote some things he genuinely believed in, and its reasonable to assume that his actions will follow similar lines. Would I want a self proclaimed nazi to work with me? Hell no. Would I want a misogynist to work with me? No.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

>> If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

I think the moment company starts taking heat on internet/talk shows/etc. for "employing fascists" that employee will get booted out for poor performance/HR complaints/staff cuts/etc. Or somehow he will resign himself ("no-no, we didn't force him out" company spokesman said in a statement).

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#499

Post by anon7725 »

content_sesh wrote: post #189
anon7725 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it started with college campus activism 10-20 years ago. If you feel empowered to shut down the dean’s office to oust a professor, you’ll probably think the same techniques can be applied to your workplace. It certainly doesn’t help that your workplace strives to walk and quack like some kind of college campus.

Campus activism is much older than 10-20 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Philadelphia_student_demo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_strike_of_1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_o...

Yes, but this particular flavor is new.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#500

Post by cbnotfromthere »

suetoniusp wrote: post #215
GeneralMayhem wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really disingenuous false equivalency. First, you're implying that all opinions are equally valid. That is... I'll be polite and simply call it nonsense. "Gay people should have rights" and "gay people shouldn't have rights" are not opinions of equal value, and it's not "eating your cake and having it too" to say that the latter opinion is unwelcome. Second, there's a very clear relationship between the "le…

"Gay people should have rights". What "rights" currently are being denied to gays? Honest question

I truly don't believe gay people should have rights. Also, I truly don't believe non-gay people should have rights.

What I mean is that rights should not depend on the person being gay or not.

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