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Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

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Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#311

Post by danychok »

m463 wrote: post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

I have never side loaded an app on my Android phone in the 6+ years I've had one.

All I've ever heard is that it is risky to do so.

I could *maybe* see doing it if the vendor were directly offering me their software - and I had some amount of trust of that vendor - like if Microsoft offered an app to directly install one my phone.

But I've never heard of or encountered that. So I'm guessing it isn't a thing.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#312

Post by bogwog »

edoceo wrote: post #32
fxtentacle wrote: post #8

I really hope Epic will release a gaming phone. It appears they have enough cash, enough clever people, and a good connection to Chinese manufacturers through their partners. If they make it Android-based but Open Source, similar to how the Unreal Engine contains proprietary components while remaining easy to customize, that could be quite the popular move for grabbing market share from Apple and Google. I, at least,…

Like a PSP that makes calls, texts and surfs the web? With HDMI out (2x?) it could be a console in your pocket. Bluetooth controllers? Now I want this. Epic are you listening!?

Relevant: https://imgix.gizmodo.com.au/content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09...

Too bad Sony's executives are spineless and out of touch.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#313

Post by [deleted] »

manicdee wrote: post #85
m463 wrote: post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

[deleted]

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#314

Post by paulddraper »

manicdee wrote: post #85
m463 wrote: post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

> If you want third party stores, there’s the Android ecosystem. Keep your grubby mitts off the Apple ecosystem.

Ok. Like the other 72% of users, I will.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#315

Post by bogwog »

bluescrn wrote: post #37
w7 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, don't we allow this level of control with video game consoles? (Heck Sony and Microsoft also take 30% cuts) What's the difference other than form factor?

Gaming is unimportant. General-purpose computing is gradually being replaced by locked-down phones and tablets, and that's much more concerning.

Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo get to avoid competition because games aren't important? I don't like that argument.

At the end of the day, it's a company telling a consumer what they can or can't do with their own property. Sony saying you can't buy a game from anyone else is just anti-competitive BS. It isn't fair to consumers, and it isn't fair to developers.

Hopefully the court rules in favor of Epic, and this case is used as precedent to go against the game console monopolies next.

Also, for what it's worth, the "real" reason why game consoles aren't allowed to be jailbroken under DMCA rules (whereas phones, computers, and other devices are) is because, currently, most people only want to do it to commit piracy. Of course, that's because there are no other legitimate software vendors for that hardware. It's a chicken and egg problem.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#316

Post by zerd »

shagie wrote: post #173
grishka wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the subscription scams in the iOS app store are an acceptable level of malware. Got it.

You open up 'general', you go to 'subscriptions', and select that. Any subscription on the iPhone can be canceled right there. As this is done through Apple's payment processing, Apple/iPhone knows about every subscription and can cancel it easily. However, if the subscription is processed through a third party, then you may have more difficulty with canceling it... but it wasn't bought through the app on the phone.…

Apple also makes a 30% cut of every scam app, so they're not in a hurry to shut them down.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#317

Post by tshaddox »

skohan wrote: post #284
tshaddox wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the point that people keep missing. The most common argument is “just let people install whatever software they want and if they install something bad that’s their fault.” But the point is that, if Apple does allow sideloading apps, customer satisfaction with iPhones will almost certainly go down . Can you argue that those new unsatisfied customers are to blame? Sure. But Apple probably actually cares about h…

You might have less average negative experiences in the home if everyone were only allowed to buy new Ikea furniture and appliances directly from Ikea. But there are a lot of reasons people would find that level of restrictiveness unacceptable.

Indeed, and no one is suggesting that everyone should only be allowed to buy iPhones.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#318

Post by shagie »

zerd wrote: post #316
shagie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You open up 'general', you go to 'subscriptions', and select that. Any subscription on the iPhone can be canceled right there. As this is done through Apple's payment processing, Apple/iPhone knows about every subscription and can cancel it easily. However, if the subscription is processed through a third party, then you may have more difficulty with canceling it... but it wasn't bought through the app on the phone.…

Apple also makes a 30% cut of every scam app, so they're not in a hurry to shut them down.

On one hand we've got people saying "apple is too much of a nanny - I want app stores from anyone."

On the other hand, here, we have "apple isn't nanny enough because there's a financial incentive for them."

To what extent are we expecting Apple to audit the terms of subscriptions? And if someone wants to pay $10 a week to get a horoscope reading... ok... they did it with 1-900 numbers yesteryear.

And... apple is doing things about IAP subscriptions from scammy apps. https://www.imore.com/apple-getting-tough-scam-apps-extortio...

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#320

Post by kosievdmerwe »

shagie wrote: post #279
kelnos wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it, though? My expectation is that most apps will still want to be on the main App Store if they can, since installing a third-party app store still represents friction to the install experience. Perhaps in a more mature market where having several app stores on your phone is commonplace (assuming that even happens), we'll have an annoying situation of exclusives, but I don't expect that "instantly" or even remo…

I would point to Epic's use of exclusives. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/epic-covering-refund-costs-... https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/why-one-pc-developer-... https://www.vg247.com/2019/07/09/epic-games-wants-pc-games-m... Given epic's current behavior on PC, I think it would be a given that they would also do this on another App Store.

How else should Epic compete? They can't reduce the price in line with their 12% cut vs steam's 30%, because steam doesn't allow games to have cheaper prices elsewhere.

Which now that I think of it seems anticompetitive from Valve.

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