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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#371

Post by ThinkBeat »

One part of the article:

This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work.

Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job?

There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work.

I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why)

It is a sad day for a Democracy when I am supposed to worry about what self-appointed political officers acting entirely outside of HR, will feel about what I write.

That is an autocratic regime. Soon we will have struggle sessions at work.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#372

Post by treeman79 »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

Current mentality is with us or against us.

Was in a woke office for awhile. I tried very hard to stay out of it. Learned quick that is very offense behavior. Was lectured on it.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#373

Post by mensetmanusman »

duped wrote: post #21
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

The office exists within society. Some things exist everywhere you go in society. You don't give up ethics and morals because you cross the threshold of your place of business. Ignoring social problems in the workplace because it is a workplace is how we avoid solving those problems as a society. The office is exactly where we should be advocating for things, because it is where we spend the most time and can affect…

People confuse politics with morals, as they say ‘Politics is preference’.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#374

Post by wpietri »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs.

I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function.

To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepreneur, I think it's a giant mistake to see a workplace as a place where the entrepreneur is a tiny god-king. Work is a social and societal activity at least as much as it is an economic one. If people want to play-act as robots, I won't deny them their kink. But that's not what interests me about work, and it's not the kind of person I hire.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#375

Post by ridaj »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

That may be your point of view, but can you hire a lot of people with this attitude?

Companies in tech successfully attract talent on the basis that they provide an opportunity to "have impact in the world". I work in tech and I hear this all the time from candidates in interviews, when asking why do you want to work here. Nobody says they just want to make a lot of money for the shareholders and a little for themselves.

The meaning of work and quality of workplace environment is incredibly important to people who work in tech. That's part of the job market situation.

If there was a massive surplus of qualified candidates to do the work, sure the "entrepreneurs" could be telling their staff to "shut up and get to work" whenever they talked about anything non-work-related... But at this time, it just isn't something that employers can really afford to do, and they have set themselves up for it too by hyping up their workplace culture and perks, and by positioning themselves not just as money making machines but as beacons of societal progress.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#376

Post by fighterpilot »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #268
slashdev wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. It seems so stupid. Why do people care about what color the emoji is? Don't they have real problems?

The reason is because "woke" is racism in reverse. As long as there's racism (in any direction), color matters. You can't treat or think of people differently on the basis of race without knowing who is in what race. The last thing "woke" people want is for discrimination on the basis of race to disappear, or for the color of people's skin to no longer factor in to how they are judged or treated. Edit: agreed with a…

There's no such thing as racism in reverse. Just racism. To be clear.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#377

Post by unclebucknasty »

steverb wrote: post #73
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to say, this is the most chilling HN sentence I’ve ever read. The totality of our existence from 8-5 is not owed to someone who profits from our labor and skills because they got lucky with some seed money or an inheritance a decade ago. That’s just the divine right of kings with extra steps.

Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. They may tolerate (and even enjoy) your personal quirks and causes, but they are paying you to get things done that they don't have the time or skill to do themselves. [Edit: Accidentally left ou a letter]

It's clear that people are exchanging their labor/skills for money. Your parent is referring to where that money comes from and why some people have it, while others must exchange their labor/skills for it.

It's pretty clear that capital is running away with the game right now. Until that's rectified, your argument about exchanging labor and skills for money makes your parent's point rather than negating it.

That is, the exchange is only free among parties with relatively equal power (at least collectively). And, if it's not a free exchange then your point is moot.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#378

Post by smegger001 »

nsilvestri wrote: post #349
smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

"Simpsons yellow" actually represents white people on the actual Simpsons TV show. The other characters who represent the non-white population all have different skin colors that line up with the people of those cultures or races. So even though nobody's actual skin color is Simpons yellow, culturally we already were representing white skin as that color.

True, I must confess to only having watched one whole episode of the Simpsons start to finish, as the humor never seemed to click for me. I always much preferred Futurama.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#379

Post by nradov »

ridaj wrote: post #375
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

That may be your point of view, but can you hire a lot of people with this attitude? Companies in tech successfully attract talent on the basis that they provide an opportunity to "have impact in the world". I work in tech and I hear this all the time from candidates in interviews, when asking why do you want to work here. Nobody says they just want to make a lot of money for the shareholders and a little for themsel…

That's what candidates say in interviews because that's what they think they're supposed to say. How many are telling the truth?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#380

Post by wpietri »

caymanjim wrote: post #135
Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers ju…

There is an enormous supply of workers who don't want social and political issues in the workplace, but silently acquiesce because saying anything gets you branded negatively and quickly canceled. It doesn't matter if you agree but prefer keeping it out of the workplace; you must either support the woke brigade or keep your mouth shut.

The only way that's true is if you have a very narrow and specific definition of "political issues". Your claim itself is very much political.

Every workplace deals in money, in power, in status and class and survival. Those are inherently political. As is insisting we pretend otherwise.

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