America’s Dead Souls • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#81

Post by Archelaos » Fri, May 21, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #72

Archelaos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, the obligation to pay alimony depends on the child's income. Only when the childs income (before taxes) excceeds 100,000 Euros per anno she/he has to pay something. There exists no obligation to pay alimony for grandparents.

What if you're estranged from your parents? If you haven't talked to them for twenty years are you still liable?

The law provides for exceptions in serious cases. However, the German Federal Court of Justice has interpreted this quite strictly. A son who had no contact with his father for 40 years and was disinherited except for the compulsory portion still had to pay alimony. The court reasoned that the son had received substantial assistance from the father during his first 18 years and that the father had only made use of his right to testamentary freedom.[1]

Just a side note: If someone has received gifts from a person who later becomes destitute, he or she must return the gift under certain conditions (the gift was made no more than 10 years ago, the recipient was not destitute on his or her part, it was not a gift of decency such as a small birthday or Christmas present, etc.).

[1] BGH, Judgment of 12 February 2014, Az. XII ZB 607/12 (PDF, in German) http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/doc...

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#82

Post by throwaway0a5e » Fri, May 21, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #76

toomuchtodo wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With proper estate planning, you can pass on assets while leaving the debt in a state where it can't be pursued.

Again something the affluent can do, those most at risk of being in private or consumer debt aren't probably even aware of all of that.

This is not just something for the well to do.

I have experience with government run elder care programs and the (privately run) estate planning that goes with it. Shoehorning all your worth into a trust (there's more to it than that) is something that not so affluent people commonly have to do in order to qualify for state run elder assistance programs/subsidies that they don't qualify for and couldn't afford themselves (fixed income) because their money is tied up in a non-liquid asset (their house). This isn't something just for the affluent. Basically if you own your own house or have a lot of equity in it it's what you have to do unless you want to give the state your house in exchange for a free van ride to the senior center or 7hr/wk of in-home care.

And before you assume everywhere is like SV and that owning your own house makes you affluent by default I would like to state that my experience is on the other side of the country.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#83

Post by draw_down » Fri, May 21, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

reader_x wrote: post #44

This is breathtakingly well-written and also terrifying. Unfortunately this is but one version: it’s also not uncommon for children and grandchildren to milk their elders dry financially, particularly when the elders are a bit addled. If those elders leave unpaid bills to a nursing home, why shouldn’t those children be held responsible? It’s rough out there.

Madness.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#84

Post by dang » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:20 AM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #67

vkou wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post implies that they have ever went away. They haven't, there's just a large middle-class America that's largely insulated from the barbarism of its legal system.

I love the fact you're being downvoted, on a website that's mostly populated by people who are mostly members of the upper middle class of America. Being reminded that you have untold advantages and suffer practically no real disadvantages must be a real mother fucker, huh folks?

Please don't post flamewar comments to HN, and please don't fulminate. The experience of being surrounded by demons in a web forum like this is a mechanical one that follows from its structure. I've tried to explain this many times. I hope one of these explanations may be helpful, but in any case please don't post like you did here–it does no good for anyone and only makes this place even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#85

Post by notsureaboutpg » Sat, May 22, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #70

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, when parents get old, it is their children who become responsible for them. I feel like this is quite common sense... especially seeing as children inherit from their parents...

Parents choose to have a child and should have the responsibility to care for them. Despite this, there are still mechanisms by which parent can legally abandon their children. Children do not choose to be born, so the moral contract is different. I would agree that most people who were cared for as children should care for their elders, and should want to. But what if they hate or despise their parents. Do they “owe…

Choice isn't the basis of most moral contracts if you really sit and think about it.

People don't choose to be born citizens of any country and yet they are still bound to be dutiful to that country, to not commit treason or undermine the country, etc.

They may renounce their citizenship sure, but children can also renounce their lives (a bit more gruesome, still)