Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#251

Post by skinnymuch » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:07 AM UTC

m463 wrote: post #201

enos_feedler wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t think Apple has a team of people trying to figure out what you can do with them? iPadOS isn’t designed to cripple the HW, its designed to extract the most from it. Its missing some traditional use cases

in a few seconds I can think of many many ways an ipad is crippled. - look at your data directly and back it up - backup and restore the entire device including apps - use ethernet through the lightning port instead of wifi - use general usb devices through the lightning port - wifi scanner (apple disallowed it in ios early-on) - tcpdump network traffic - change the wifi-off shortcut to actually turn it off (matching…

All of this is available if jailbroken. There aren’t many people caring too much about most of these.

I personally enjoy parts of the first two. They aren’t deal breakers if I can’t jailbreak/root though.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#252

Post by egocentric » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:07 AM UTC

kitsunesoba wrote: post #146

stale2002 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep your grubby mitts off the Apple ecosystem. But it is actually you who want to control how other people use their own phone, that they own. If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That way, people who want to trust apple get what they want, as well as people who want to trust other app stores. Everyone wins, right? Why do you care so much about how other people use their own phone?

> If you don't like Epic's store, just don't use it. Problem solved. That only holds up until something you need is exclusive to a store that you don't want to use.

If Apple is so concerned about user security & privacy when it comes to alternative app stores, they should adjust their policies so that the apps most users want will see no reason not to be on the App Store.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#253

Post by teruakohatu » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:08 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #239

teruakohatu wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. There are many classes of applications on the Play Store and F-droid not on the App Store, including multiple browsing engines and emulators. I would wager that within weeks or months there would be a full windows VM available for the iPad if it was allowed.

Apple allows you to sideload those kinds of apps using the developer certificate. Emulators, VMs etc have existed for years. Again it’s far more the form factor that is a restriction than whether it’s downloadable from the store or not.

A while back I paid Apple $99 for the privilege of compiling an open source emulator and side loading it to my iPad and then having to re-load is after some period of time. It was not worth the effort.

For the average user, it is not even within the ballpark of their abilities.

I would argue that the reason is less form factor and more computational power. The M1 brings best-of-class laptop performance to a tablet, combined with a keyboard and a Linux distro and I would have a much more powerful platform than my current laptop.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#254

Post by skinnymuch » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:09 AM UTC

justaguy88 wrote: post #204

StavrosK wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple "All" that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is there's going to be competition in what is now a monopoly. To say that the only difference will be lower quality is, at best, naive.

I'm interested to see Steam on the iphone rather than anything Epic might do

Epic winning wouldn’t only let Epic do things. It would let any one. Though why not be interested in what the company doing the fighting is doing? Versus Steam that only has a good rep because other app stores in comparison seem worse. Even though Steam’s fee is crazy too and they only did one recent change because of competition.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#255

Post by kergonath » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:10 AM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #73

m463 wrote: post #52

The best result for customers is that there are alternate ways of putting apps on their own phones that do not require apple's permission. Then the customers that trust apple to protect them will just stay with the app store. The customers that try the alternate ways may find problems, but they will also find enormous positive changes in their ability to do new things on their phone. Personally, I would like the abil…

The best outcome for everybody is that the maximum % commission of these stores is regulated, perhaps to a maximum of 10-15%. Do that and the need for alternate stores, alternate payments etc. goes away.

Do you really believe that setting profit margin for an industry is the government’s job? I am not libertarian, far from it, but this sounds excessive.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#256

Post by ixacto » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

skohan wrote: post #123

manicdee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phone users aren’t interested in developing software on their phone. They aren’t interested in developing a better systemd. They have no idea what malware actually is. All that is going to happen if Epic gets their own store is Epic will be collecting the 30% rather than Apple, and the user will get apps that are poorly designed, chew battery, and don’t conform to the UX standards that Apple has set (eg: accessi…

The new iPads literally have the same SOC as what are some of, if not the best consumer laptops on the planet currently. But what can you do with them? Not a heck of a lot, thanks to the walled garden that is iPad OS. If you ask me, that's a crying shame. I don't see how it hurts anyone to allow side-loading of apps on iOS devices. Even if you make it as hard as having a toggle behind a scary warning 2 layers deep in…

Being able to dual boot or virtualize Ubuntu and windows 10 on an M1 iPad Pro with 16gb of ram and a touchscreen would be great.

Parallels already runs on m1 it wouldn’t be very hard to enable on m1 iPads.

It is honestly a better form factor than the laptop as you can just plug in a thunderbird dock and get expanded ports.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#257

Post by skinnymuch » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

nucleardog wrote: post #140

benrbray wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Third party stores will emerge, and it is up to the consumer, not Apple, to decide whether the extra features are worth the new apps being a little rough around the edges like they are on Android. If it's as bad as you say, the new stores will not be successful anyway.

> The point is opening it up so users have a choice. Users have a choice: Don't use iOS. Their actions have pretty overwhelmingly spoken and they don't care. The only people that care are techies. And most obviously not that much because most meetings I show up to are still full of iPhones.

And use what? I didn’t use iOS until Windows Mobile, then webOS, then Windows Phone died out in that order. Not much choice any more.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#258

Post by kergonath » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:11 AM UTC

voisin wrote: post #94

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best outcome for everybody is that the maximum % commission of these stores is regulated, perhaps to a maximum of 10-15%. Do that and the need for alternate stores, alternate payments etc. goes away.

I think it is about more than commission. Developers argue the rules can be applied capriciously and that many of the rules are paternalistic.

Yeah, that’s a much more legitimate issue than arguing about 15% vs 30% and where the line in the sand should be.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#259

Post by egocentric » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

nodamage wrote: post #240

grishka wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers and Android devices don't employ predatory code signing and can run anything without the manufacturer having a say, yet somehow the hell didn't break loose. Also, if you don't let people make mistakes or see someone else make them, they won't learn. In effect, one might say that this scheme makes people dumber.

At this point I am convinced HN commenters have a blind spot when it comes to how easily non-technical users get infected with malware. The latest statistics[1] show iOS has significantly fewer malware infections compared to Android and Windows devices: iOS: 1.72% Android: 26.64% Windows: 38.92% IoT: 32.72% [1] https://www.nokia.com/networks/portfolio/cyber-security/thre...

Android and Windows devices don’t necessarily have the same OS-level security provisions, so this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison. It’s probably true that iOS as an operating system has had stronger security from the start, but that’s not related to the app distribution channel.

Re: Judge in Fortnite case holds Tim Cook's feet to the fire

#260

Post by kergonath » Sat, May 22, 2021, 12:14 AM UTC

comex wrote: post #194

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best outcome for everybody is that the maximum % commission of these stores is regulated, perhaps to a maximum of 10-15%. Do that and the need for alternate stores, alternate payments etc. goes away.

Then money would be less of an issue, but we'd still be stuck with all the same arbitrary restrictions as today, like no third party browsers, no porn, political censorship in China...

Political censorship in China is just part of doing business there. I would like Apple to follow the laws where I live (which they do imperfectly, and they need to be held accountable), so I am not going to complain because they follow local laws in other countries.

In the other hand, their policy for apps with user-generated content is stupid, and their stance on adult content is pure ideology that belongs in the 19th century.