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Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

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Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#291

Post by FalconSensei »

dragontamer wrote: post #286
FalconSensei wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter does the same, and I (along with other people) hate it. I mean... nice that it saves data, but I can't save it. To download an image is SO simple, but have to rely on 3rd party services to convert the video back to gif if I want to post it as gif on twitter later, or send as gif on whatsapp.

I know enough about the debugging terminals in Chrome and Firefox to just "save-as" the .mp4 file itself. So I personally haven't had any problems with saving or sharing .mp4s. (Most commonly: grabbing some animated .mp4 meme and copy/pasting it into Discord) But yes: its weird that Chrome / Firefox don't have easy-to-use "save as" buttons on .mp4s. But just grab the .mp4 and share the .mp4 on whatever services you u…

> I know enough about the debugging terminals in Chrome and Firefox to just "save-as" the .mp4 file itself.

Right, so this just don't work for like 90% of the population, or when you are on mobile, right?

Edit: what I mentioned about saving the mp4 and having problem later is: if I save the video and then try to re-share it on Twitter, it will be shared as a video, and not as a gif - or at least that was the case last time I tried

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#292

Post by dstaley »

Andrex wrote: post #277
FalconSensei wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should drop gif support. We just need an actual replacement that has the same behaviours and actually works everywhere, as gif does. Videos are not a replacement, and other image formats don't work everywhere

Animated PNG is supported in every single modern browser, and degrades gracefully (the first frame is at least rendered.) https://www.caniuse.com/apng WebP support (including animation) was added to the most recent major version of Safari, meaning WebP has similarly widespread support. https://www.caniuse.com/webp

One interesting aspect of WebP support (or lack thereof) is that it doesn't work in Slack or Discord, even when those are running in a supported browser. I think things like this are inhibiting adoption of newer formats.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#293

Post by a1369209993 »

colanderman wrote: post #220
lizknope wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Apple I / II before the Macintosh used the MOS 6502 processor.

6502 is arguably a "proto-ARM", so one could say Apple has come full circle.

It's arguably a proto-RISC architechture (eg ADD has to be coded explicitly from CLC and one or more ADC, register file is memory locations 00-FF, etc), but it has little to do with ARM.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#294

Post by klelatti »

mumblemumble wrote: post #281
klelatti wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer is yes. Just one significant example all instructions 32 bit long and no Thumb. If you read Patterson and Hennessy (Arm edition) there is a slightly wistful throwaway comment I think that Aarch64 has more in common with their vision of MIPS than with the original Arm approach. Elsewhere you've commented that it's more similar to x86 -> x64 than x86 -> Itanium - which may be true but Itanium was a huge ch…

There's a sort of category problem underlying what you're saying though, perhaps fueled by the fact that ARM has more of a mix-and-match thing going on than Intel chips do. aarch64 isn't really an equivalent category to x64, because it describes only one portion of the whole ARMv8 spec. ARMv8 still includes the 32-bit instructions and the Thumb. I realize you did mention Thumb, but you incorrectly indicated that it d…

> Not only is it an incumbent switching to another architecture; it's an incumbent switching to another incumbent architecture. ARM is older than PowerPC and almost as old as the Macintosh itself; it came out in 1985.

> I gather that it's true that ARM hasn't been as good about backwards compatibility as some of its competitors, but was ARMv8 really so much of a jump from ARMv7 that one can't count it as part of the same line of processors anymore?

> I wasn't ever really talking about just aarch64; I was talking about all of ARM.

M1 is AArch64 only. You incorrectly brought ARMv8 into the discussion. AArch32 is irrelevant in the context of the M1.

Fair to highlight worse backwards compatibility but then you can't bring back AArch32 which Apple dropped years ago to try to claim that the M1 somehow uses an old architecture.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#295

Post by oauea »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #221
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kind of do, though, or you lose compatibility. There are a lot of corners of the internet which just haven’t been touched in a decade. Are you going to break all of them? For what purpose?

Is it really much of a loss that very large or long GIF animations required click-to-play?

Yes, it would be immense. Many gifs have been used for user interface elements and such a change would break that completely.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#296

Post by mumblemumble »

klelatti wrote: post #294
mumblemumble wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a sort of category problem underlying what you're saying though, perhaps fueled by the fact that ARM has more of a mix-and-match thing going on than Intel chips do. aarch64 isn't really an equivalent category to x64, because it describes only one portion of the whole ARMv8 spec. ARMv8 still includes the 32-bit instructions and the Thumb. I realize you did mention Thumb, but you incorrectly indicated that it d…

> Not only is it an incumbent switching to another architecture; it's an incumbent switching to another incumbent architecture. ARM is older than PowerPC and almost as old as the Macintosh itself; it came out in 1985. > I gather that it's true that ARM hasn't been as good about backwards compatibility as some of its competitors, but was ARMv8 really so much of a jump from ARMv7 that one can't count it as part of the…

> AArch32 is irrelevant in the context of the M1.

Is it? It's not like Apple moving MacBooks to M1 happened in a vacuum. M1 is only the latest in a whole series of Apple ARM chips, about half of which were non-aarch64.

That context actually seems extremely relevant to me; it demonstrates that Apple is not just jumping wholesale to a brand new architecture. They migrated the way large companies usually do: slowly, incrementally, testing the waters as they go. And aarch64 was absolutely not involved in the formative stages (which are arguably the most important bits) of that process. It hadn't even come into existence yet when Apple released their first product based on Apple Silicon. Heck, you can make a case that the process's roots go way back before Apple Silicon, all the way back to ~1990, when Apple first shipped the Newton.

Note, too, that the person I was originally replying to didn't say "M1", they said "Apple Silicon." In the interest of leaving the goalpost in one place, I followed that precedent.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#297

Post by FalconSensei »

asddubs wrote: post #180
slver wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this kids, is why we have key and delta frames. We should drop gif support.

i'm pretty surprised apng hasn't really displaced gif, at least not completely. a lot of people don't seem to even be aware pngs are animatable these days

I think they don't work on Slack, Whatsapp and other apps

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#298

Post by klelatti »

mumblemumble wrote: post #296
klelatti wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is it an incumbent switching to another architecture; it's an incumbent switching to another incumbent architecture. ARM is older than PowerPC and almost as old as the Macintosh itself; it came out in 1985. > I gather that it's true that ARM hasn't been as good about backwards compatibility as some of its competitors, but was ARMv8 really so much of a jump from ARMv7 that one can't count it as part of the…

> AArch32 is irrelevant in the context of the M1. Is it? It's not like Apple moving MacBooks to M1 happened in a vacuum. M1 is only the latest in a whole series of Apple ARM chips, about half of which were non-aarch64. That context actually seems extremely relevant to me; it demonstrates that Apple is not just jumping wholesale to a brand new architecture. They migrated the way large companies usually do: slowly, inc…

Your point now seems to be that M1 is the latest in a line of processors with ISAs designed by Arm limited. I'll agree with that and leave it there.

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#299

Post by colanderman »

a1369209993 wrote: post #293
colanderman wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6502 is arguably a "proto-ARM", so one could say Apple has come full circle.

It's arguably a proto- RISC architechture (eg ADD has to be coded explicitly from CLC and one or more ADC, register file is memory locations 00-FF, etc), but it has little to do with ARM.

My understanding was that much of the design of ARM was literally based on 6502: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Design_concep...

Edit: Granted, Sophie Wilson, one of the designers of ARM, is on record stating that 6502 didn't inspire anything in particular, beside being one of the few inputs to her pool of ideas (16032 and Berkeley RISC being the others): https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/admired_designs.html#wil... So... arguably :)

Re: Animated GIF uses over 35GB RAM in Acorn on M1 Mac, likely due to memory leak

#300

Post by colanderman »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #266
colanderman wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6502 is arguably a "proto-ARM", so one could say Apple has come full circle.

What do you mean “proto ARM”? I thought the 6502 was based on the MC6800 (the predecessor to the 68k)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Design_concep...

Parts of ARM were modeled after 6502, it having been the processor used in the company's first successful microcomputer.

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