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“Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

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Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#51

Post by Syonyk »

tapoxi wrote: post #27
rasengan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi this is Andrew from the post and freenode. Long story short, former staff were upset about a logo but the logos were there since the start. I wanted to share that. Secondly, staff claim there was a hostile takeover. I have owned freenode for years and was a great custodian as far as I can tell (only compliments from former staff some of which even flew into defcon and came to my house on my dime, internationally)…

From what I've read it seems like you generally seem to have Freenode's interests at heart, but this seems like a complete communication failure. Most channels I've been a part of have moved to Libera Chat, so I don't think Freenode in its current form can recover from this. Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? It would be nice to have a homeserver t…

> * Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? *

Please don't. I like Matrix, I use it, but it's not IRC, and it's far, far more resource heavy (both in homeserver and in clients) than IRC is. You can run IRC on ancient gutless wonders, and it uses almost no resources. Matrix, especially the flagship Element client, is a resource hog. Start throwing rooms with thousands of users in, and it requires an awful lot of resources.

Keep IRC IRC.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#52

Post by rasengan »

greyface- wrote: post #45
rasengan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That information is confidential in nature. That said tomaw has seen it and has handed freenode back over if that helps to understand what it’s content may have. I really apologize for the inconvenience.

What are the terms of the confidentiality agreement? Who would need to sign off on terminating the confidentiality agreement, and would you consider doing so in order to help the public understand what's going on?

About the majority of the questions I will get back to you. In terms of the latter - I wish I could have simply posted it — so absolutely, yes.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#53

Post by duckfang »

rasengan wrote: post #41
greyface- wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Andrew, thanks for participating in the comments here. Will you consider disclosing the terms under which you purchased freenode? PDFs of executed documents, ideally?

That information is confidential in nature. That said tomaw has seen it and has handed freenode back over if that helps to understand what it’s content may have. I really apologize for the inconvenience.

Oof.

Confidentiality, NDA's, and other business tools like it are at complete odds with open source, free software, transparency, and honesty.

It's comments like this that cement the idea of getting off of Freenode to Libera.chat is the best thing we could do.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#54

Post by blibble »

rasengan wrote: post #41
greyface- wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Andrew, thanks for participating in the comments here. Will you consider disclosing the terms under which you purchased freenode? PDFs of executed documents, ideally?

That information is confidential in nature. That said tomaw has seen it and has handed freenode back over if that helps to understand what it’s content may have. I really apologize for the inconvenience.

so you're willing to disclose it?

I'm sure the other side would also be open to it

if both sides are happy there should be no problem whatsoever

this would completely settle the debate

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#55

Post by tapoxi »

Syonyk wrote: post #51
tapoxi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read it seems like you generally seem to have Freenode's interests at heart, but this seems like a complete communication failure. Most channels I've been a part of have moved to Libera Chat, so I don't think Freenode in its current form can recover from this. Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? It would be nice to have a homeserver t…

> * Maybe you should consider incorporating it as a nonprofit and potentially a technology switch to Matrix? * Please don't. I like Matrix, I use it, but it's not IRC, and it's far, far more resource heavy (both in homeserver and in clients) than IRC is. You can run IRC on ancient gutless wonders, and it uses almost no resources. Matrix, especially the flagship Element client, is a resource hog. Start throwing rooms…

IRC stays IRC, but how else does a network like freenode survive a giant schism? They need to differentiate from libera chat.

Matrix has problems, but as the ecosystem grows we'll start to see improvements.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#56

Post by scrutinizer80 »

duckfang wrote: post #29
rasengan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi this is Andrew from the post and freenode. Long story short, former staff were upset about a logo but the logos were there since the start. I wanted to share that. Secondly, staff claim there was a hostile takeover. I have owned freenode for years and was a great custodian as far as I can tell (only compliments from former staff some of which even flew into defcon and came to my house on my dime, internationally)…

That's fine. We've already switched quite a few rooms to Libera.chat due to this debacle. More are moving as we speak. I don't know who's right or who's wrong. What I do know is that a LOT of volunteer IRC OPs left en masse for "reasons". I know a few of them, and am inclined to trust them. I'll talk with them after the dust settles. I know how to read the room, even though I don't have all the information. I helped…

The logs posted over at

https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=18926720&cid=61404...

Seem to indicate that the staff were unitedly and firmly against this. It's suspicious having the entire team against one person. I still don't get the whole picture but claims when made by an entire staff usually have merit.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#57

Post by Macha »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #5

This is probably a pdf of this blog post: https://freenode.net/news/freenode-is-foss I'm not familiar with the situation, but find it odd, that the author signs off as "Chairman, freenode limited" where he seems to be the owner of the company that owns Private Internet Access (PIA) [0]. This form of selectively under-reporting has a weird smell to it. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26053770

PIA have clarified that they are wholly owned by Kape these days, and that LTM/Imperial holdings/Andrew Lee has no stake remaining: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ng5pzj/freenode_now_...

This is also why the sponsor logo on freenode.net is for Shells, not PIA.

Kape has its own questionable background, but not one that involves this incident.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#58

Post by logical_person »

nitrix wrote: post #30

People that aren’t in the wrong don’t need to save face like you’re desperately trying to do. All I can say is good luck running Freenode without its staff and sponsors.

People that have never interacted with a freenode ircoper will believe everything they post.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#59

Post by SirSourdough »

nitrix wrote: post #30

People that aren’t in the wrong don’t need to save face like you’re desperately trying to do. All I can say is good luck running Freenode without its staff and sponsors.

I don’t have much of a dog in the Freenode fight, but the idea that people who are in the right don’t need to work to convince others is just patently false and not supported by reality. Especially when one side is seen as the side of “good” by default.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#60

Post by greyface- »

rasengan wrote: post #52
greyface- wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the terms of the confidentiality agreement? Who would need to sign off on terminating the confidentiality agreement, and would you consider doing so in order to help the public understand what's going on?

About the majority of the questions I will get back to you. In terms of the latter - I wish I could have simply posted it — so absolutely, yes.

Thanks. I'm glad to hear that -- I think the lack of transparency around the sale is making it hard for a lot of people (myself included) to make sense of this whole situation.
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