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Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

science.sciencemag.org

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Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#281

Post by raverbashing »

crocodiletears wrote: post #187
solarengineer wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is astounding to a lot of us in South East Asia is the reluctance of the West in learning from our lessons. How many deaths and personal trauma experiences do people in general need to go through in order to learn from others?

In the US, it's more to do with the way the CDC's messaging throughout the pandemic than any rejection of the evidence concerning a mask's efficacy. People refusing to wear masks rarely question whether or not it works, and more to do with a low estimation of the disease's threat, as well as contempt for both the technocrats who chose to mislead the public about masks early on, and leaders who they believe are overst…

> to mislead the public about masks early on,

"Hey, some government people lied to us saying we don't need masks, hence why we won't use masks now"

Great logic there. But hey, cutting your nose to spite your face feels good, no?

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#282

Post by incrudible »

teleforce wrote: post #279

Obligatory story on Manchurian plague epidemic regarding how surgical mask come to be a standard requirement during the treatment of any airborne disease [1][2]. Mind you that the original surgical mask was not invented for surgery, it was invented for the treatment of patients with airborne virus. Heck, every.single.time you meets someone who are skeptical about the effectiveness of the mask in mitigating the airbor…

The Wu Lien-Teh mask is the precursor of KN95 masks, not surgical masks. See this:

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:How_the_gauze-cotton_m...

Surgical masks offer virtually no (personal) protection against airborne disease and fulfill a completely different purpose.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#283

Post by [deleted] »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #163
panarky wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The effectiveness of masks, however, is still under debate Effective for the mask wearer, or effective for others in the vicinity of the mask wearer? It's well established that cheap cloth masks and procedure masks don't protect the mask wearer very much. The rationale for cheap masks is that they drastically reduce the spread of particles from the wearer to everyone else nearby . If your goal is to protect yoursel…

Except there is no convincing evidence that they actually do help others, and the whole theoretical mechanism is centered around catching large respiratory droplets which is at odd with the totality of evidence pointing towards aerosol being the dominant mode. I would add if droplet transmission is the dominant mode, which I very much doubt, then masks would still fail in a real-world setting when you look at the fac…

[deleted]

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#285

Post by himinlomax »

crocodiletears wrote: post #187
solarengineer wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is astounding to a lot of us in South East Asia is the reluctance of the West in learning from our lessons. How many deaths and personal trauma experiences do people in general need to go through in order to learn from others?

In the US, it's more to do with the way the CDC's messaging throughout the pandemic than any rejection of the evidence concerning a mask's efficacy. People refusing to wear masks rarely question whether or not it works, and more to do with a low estimation of the disease's threat, as well as contempt for both the technocrats who chose to mislead the public about masks early on, and leaders who they believe are overst…

> "Hey, some government people lied to us saying we don't need masks, hence why we won't use masks now"

> Great logic there. But hey, cutting your nose to spite your face is nice, no?

Stupid people are gonna stupid, but you can't lie to people and then expect them to then automatically trust you when you're telling the truth. Those people are objectively and factually wrong, but they are right to be distrustful. If the issue wasn't one of science that we could otherwise objectively evaluate, their position would be perfectly rational and reasonable.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#286

Post by himinlomax »

hermitcrab wrote: post #263
wyclif wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC mis-messaging is one component of this. Another is that there is no long tradition of public medical mask-wearing in the West, unlike many parts of SE Asia. Public mask-wearing is new, exceptional, and somewhat alarming if you live in North America or Europe. Yet another component is that trust in the press and other public institutions was at possibly an all-time low in America at the time the COVID…

If you wore a mask in public in the UK before COVID, you would have got some very strange looks. They might have thought you were a criminal trying to hide your face. It seems fairly normal now though.

It's worse than that, you'd probably had been harassed by the police, or just simply arrested.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#287

Post by teleforce »

incrudible wrote: post #282
teleforce wrote: post #279

Obligatory story on Manchurian plague epidemic regarding how surgical mask come to be a standard requirement during the treatment of any airborne disease [1][2]. Mind you that the original surgical mask was not invented for surgery, it was invented for the treatment of patients with airborne virus. Heck, every.single.time you meets someone who are skeptical about the effectiveness of the mask in mitigating the airbor…

The Wu Lien-Teh mask is the precursor of KN95 masks, not surgical masks. See this: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:How_the_gauze-cotton_m... Surgical masks offer virtually no (personal) protection against airborne disease and fulfill a completely different purpose.

Based on the design and capability, I doubt Dr Wu original mask back in the pandemic was even close to N95 mask in filtering the air probably closer to the surgical mask of today, if not worst. The N95 as we know today was invented just recently in 1995[1]. Even with its rudimentary design, Dr Wu's mask had managed to save many lives back then, and in my opinion surgical mask of today will be similar if not better than the original Dr. Wu's mask design.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_respirator

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#289

Post by incrudible »

teleforce wrote: post #287
incrudible wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wu Lien-Teh mask is the precursor of KN95 masks, not surgical masks. See this: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:How_the_gauze-cotton_m... Surgical masks offer virtually no (personal) protection against airborne disease and fulfill a completely different purpose.

Based on the design and capability, I doubt Dr Wu original mask back in the pandemic was even close to N95 mask in filtering the air probably closer to the surgical mask of today, if not worst. The N95 as we know today was invented just recently in 1995[1]. Even with its rudimentary design, Dr Wu's mask had managed to save many lives back then, and in my opinion surgical mask of today will be similar if not better th…

> Based on the design and capability, I doubt Dr Wu original mask back in the pandemic was even close to N95 mask in filtering the air probably closer to the surgical mask of today, if not worst.

Surgical masks are not designed to filter air, they are designed to prevent droplets from exiting the mouth and contaminating the surrounding - especially an open wound like you'd have during surgery. Hence, it's called surgical mask. They are loosely worn.

The Wu Lien Teh mask was designed to filter air - with the capabilities of the time. It was tightly worn. It would've been a far more effective filter than a modern surgical mask.

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