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Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

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171–180 of 261 posts

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#171
I think it may be more a "monolinguals are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation" issue. It just happens that a lot of English speakers are monolingual compared to speakers of most other languages.

When you learn a new language, particularly as an adult, you learn that you have limitations in its use and to be able to accept and work around them. You learn that that's nothing to be ashamed of, because you put in a hell of a lot of work and can now function in what used to sound like complete nonsense to you. You learn to prioritize keeping things short and simple to minimize the chance of your being miss understood.

In your native language, amongst native speakers, everyone's so skillful at communication that there's often more of a focus on how something is said than what is said. I.e. it's so clear that other speakers will understand a speaker's basic "I want to have this done by tomorrow" message - however they formulate it - that they often put more focus on other issues, such adding jokes or word-play, ensuring the correct level of politeness is used or communicating the nuisances of their current emotional situation. To other native speakers, that results in a richer signal, one containing more information which costs them no effort to understand and which they can filter out or pay attention to as they wish. To a non-native speaker, that additional information is just noise: like listening to a message over a bad radio signal. It costs them a lot of effort to attempt to understand it, they often fail in doing so and it gets in the way of their comprehendig the core message. They just want to hear "I need it by tomorrow morning", not "If it isn't too much trouble, is there any chance we could get this done by tomorrow?"

A monolingual can get this in the abstract, but it's easy for them to forget. Someone who's gone through the millions of minor embarrassments, humiliations and triumphs it takes to master a second language is far better disposed to remember it and act on it in practice.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#172

Funnily enough I’ve had to explain this to my friends when ordering in Chinese or other ethic restaurants. Something like “hi, how are you? I’d like the roast duck with rice please, oh and with a Diet Coke too?” is actually quite confusing and a lot to parse when you’re a native Cantonese speaker rushing to serve 30 people. Instead “roast duck with rice, Diet Coke”, while rude sounding, is much preferable. It may see…

I ended up with the prawn burger (KFC Japan) because I made the mistake of mentioning that I dont want the prawn burger.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#173
post #144
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spoken to a French person while imitating their accent and found that they understand you much better?

Have you ever spoken to a Glaswegian while imitating their accent and found that they understand you better? I was really worried that people would think I was making fun of them, but, in reality, they just thought that my horrible American accent had gotten a little bit better. :)

I even have to do that with Australians as a Kiwi - asking for a "pen" sounds to them like I want a "pin", so I have to stretch my vowels and ask for a "peeen" which sounds to me like I'm taking the piss, but they don't seem to take offense, and then hand me a pen.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#174

It doesn’t help that native English speakers are less inclined to learn another language and don’t get to understand the experience of being at the other end

Less inclined, or with less incentive, and fewer opportunities? Whereas English is omnipresent. Finding good teachers is always tough in a monolingual environment. I'm reminded of visiting China in the 2000s, many Chinese languages, rarely foreign languages, but a hunger to learn English from native speakers.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#175
post #16

Was the word “inflammable”?

I'm guessing "infamous". You know, when someone becomes more than just famous, then become "infamous".

I shouldn't start on these but I fail to resist, since you bring one of them on the discussion.

This is one of numerous "faux-amis" that are so tricky for native French speakers. While "fameux" has the meaning an English speaker would expect, "Infâme" means odious. Other examples include "éventuellement" that means possibly (and not surely in the future), "actuellement" which translates as "nowadays" (and not really) etc.

It may be chauvinism, but etymological and geographical clues let be believe that most of these are french words that have been imported into English and whose meanings changed radically. Admittedly, some probably share a common latin origin and were declined into similar words but retaining a different subset of their original meanings.

It is often a source of weird misunderstandings between native French and English speakers, neither of which are famous for their mastery at learning foreign languages...

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#176
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laugh, but talking with Japanese, something that often happens is: A: "Shouldn't I launch the nukes?" B: "No." Can be understood as "yes, do it" because they are used to an opposite logic when answering negation. "Yes" means "I agree with the negation" and no the opposite. And they seem to have a hard time accepting that the logic is different in English.

That's an ambiguous question in native English too and could only be fully, precisely understood from context. While I would interpret the sentence from only the context you provided in the way that you describe, I would characterize the question as unclear. A military chain of command would definitely phrase the question more like "Mr. President, can you confirm you are giving us the order to launch the nukes? Pleas…

French and German, at least, have handy words (si and doch respectively) that just serve to contradict a negative question.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#177
post #74

I think some commenters are taking issue with this article for singling out English. Yes, the larger issue is native vs non-native speakers in any language. But this article is specifically addressed to native English speakers because English often serves as the common language in a room of mixed-language speakers. I'm a native English speaker. I don't find the article offensive, and I appreciate it pointing out how…

In other languages it wouldn’t happen at the same scale due to people also speaking a second language and realise these dynamics. Do you know many native English speakers speaking a second language fluently? I have been living in the U.K. for over 10 years and can count them on a hand.

Well, the thing about English being a global lingua franca is that English speakers aren't constantly exposed to another language the way many other people are exposed to English. It isn't fair, but there we are.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#179
post #172

Funnily enough I’ve had to explain this to my friends when ordering in Chinese or other ethic restaurants. Something like “hi, how are you? I’d like the roast duck with rice please, oh and with a Diet Coke too?” is actually quite confusing and a lot to parse when you’re a native Cantonese speaker rushing to serve 30 people. Instead “roast duck with rice, Diet Coke”, while rude sounding, is much preferable. It may see…

I ended up with the prawn burger (KFC Japan) because I made the mistake of mentioning that I dont want the prawn burger.

You started to list the things you didn’t want?? That’s odd.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#180
This is somewhat off-topic, but as a native English speaker who has spent a lot of time conversing in English with non-native speakers, I've been struck by how many times non-native speakers will come up with a phrase that is perfectly proper English, but nothing a native speaker would ever have said, and quite poetic. It's often a charming surprise.
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