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Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

theatlantic.com

61–70 of 82 posts

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#61
I just watched a classic Star Trek episode.

I'll try not to give any spoilers for those that have not watched it.

Bunch of human were infected by some kind of plant, they became super healthy but content. The episode deemed the infected ones unproductive, but I think that's some life worth living.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#62
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let people criticize things. I doubt you'd apply your comment toward your favorite political pet causes. Why are the Kardashians the one thing in our society that is not allowed to be criticized? This whole "let people enjoy things" is cynical, usually coming from the types of people who don't let anyone enjoy anything unless it is degenerate and mind-rotting.

> Why are the Kardashians the one thing in our society that is not allowed to be criticized? They aren't, and I didn't say that. You can criticize the Kardashians all you want. Saying, effectively, "Kardashians are like these ant parasites, amirite guys?" isn't critique. > I doubt you'd apply your comment toward your favorite political pet causes. I think you dramatically underestimate how much I enjoy being critical…

You misinterpreted the analogy. The Kardashians aren't the parasites in the ants, they are the ants with the parasites in them.

The implication is that the Karashians sit around recieving undue attention and prosperity while providing nothing in return to their sociey.

Regardless of whether you agree with that assessment, it does qualify as critique and not just name calling.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#63
post #62
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are the Kardashians the one thing in our society that is not allowed to be criticized? They aren't, and I didn't say that. You can criticize the Kardashians all you want. Saying, effectively, "Kardashians are like these ant parasites, amirite guys?" isn't critique. > I doubt you'd apply your comment toward your favorite political pet causes. I think you dramatically underestimate how much I enjoy being critical…

You misinterpreted the analogy. The Kardashians aren't the parasites in the ants, they are the ants with the parasites in them. The implication is that the Karashians sit around recieving undue attention and prosperity while providing nothing in return to their sociey. Regardless of whether you agree with that assessment, it does qualify as critique and not just name calling.

Yeah, I understood the analogy just fine, thanks. Obviously the parent was drawing a parallel between the pampered do nothing ants and the Kardashians.

But critique implies an analysis and some thought, not just a pithy one liner.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#64
post #63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misinterpreted the analogy. The Kardashians aren't the parasites in the ants, they are the ants with the parasites in them. The implication is that the Karashians sit around recieving undue attention and prosperity while providing nothing in return to their sociey. Regardless of whether you agree with that assessment, it does qualify as critique and not just name calling.

Yeah, I understood the analogy just fine, thanks. Obviously the parent was drawing a parallel between the pampered do nothing ants and the Kardashians. But critique implies an analysis and some thought, not just a pithy one liner.

Ah, then you needed to word your response differently. Ant parasite != Parasite ant.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#65
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most species have social behavior and live in groups, to different degrees. Individuals in a society and cells in an organism are also analogous. So while you're right to call them acting like cells in organism, I'm uncertain what "than individual animals" would mean.

While this is true, eusociality is fairly distinctive. The part where most of the colony can't breed is what really stands out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusociality This does make individual hymenopterans less like individuals of other species, which are in competition with others of the same gametes for the privilege of breeding and the survival of their offspring. Hymenopterans are more individual than slime m…

But most of our cells can "breed". Inability to divide happens only where it's necessary, like blood cells. It's not a social feature on its own. So I'm unsure why this is important about ants.

Is "can breed" the ultimate clue of individualism? But again, this makes most of our cells... "individuals".

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#66
post #21

Not a biologist, but my impression is that in some of ways, individual ants behave more like cells in a multi-celled organism than individual animals. The hive is the organism. (The analogy is certainly not perfect.) Considering that, I don't find this paradoxical at all, still very fascinating. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I think cancer also in some sense helps the individual cell at the cost…

In a way, don’t humans too?

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#67
post #21

Not a biologist, but my impression is that in some of ways, individual ants behave more like cells in a multi-celled organism than individual animals. The hive is the organism. (The analogy is certainly not perfect.) Considering that, I don't find this paradoxical at all, still very fascinating. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I think cancer also in some sense helps the individual cell at the cost…

You might really enjoy the Children of Time series. I won't spoil it, but ants play a very unique role.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#68
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true, eusociality is fairly distinctive. The part where most of the colony can't breed is what really stands out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusociality This does make individual hymenopterans less like individuals of other species, which are in competition with others of the same gametes for the privilege of breeding and the survival of their offspring. Hymenopterans are more individual than slime m…

But most of our cells can "breed". Inability to divide happens only where it's necessary, like blood cells. It's not a social feature on its own. So I'm unsure why this is important about ants. Is "can breed" the ultimate clue of individualism? But again, this makes most of our cells... "individuals".

Our cells will die when we die. Most of our cells have no future, but the ones that become our children and recombine with somebody of the opposite sex do have a future.

That doesn’t mean the rest of our cells don’t exist in a state of genetic indifference. They have evolutionary pressure to improve the fitness of the individual, otherwise it’s a dead end for all genes involved.

Competition between reproductively capable individuals is different. An ant that acts selfishly will reduce the fitness of the hive with no genetic reward. It’s a losing strategy. But in a society, a selfish person can reap the rewards while taking advantage or damaging the society they belong to.

The fact that humans exhibit behaviors like self sacrifice and loyalty points towards the idea that humans’ evolutionary strategy is somewhat mixed. Selfishness and selflessness coexist because our fitness is to some extend, dependent on the society, or to the hand that feeds us.

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#69
post #49

I’ve thought humans have been a plot for the microbiome to procreate for a while now, in essence you’re just a safe place for various bacteria to keep you alive. Have no illusions about how important they think you are ;-)

We're starships for mitochondria. :)

We’ll be flying starships to other planets for our mitochondria to spread

Re: Ant parasites that prolong the life of their host

#70
post #33
post #21

Not a biologist, but my impression is that in some of ways, individual ants behave more like cells in a multi-celled organism than individual animals. The hive is the organism. (The analogy is certainly not perfect.) Considering that, I don't find this paradoxical at all, still very fascinating. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I think cancer also in some sense helps the individual cell at the cost…

Most species have social behavior and live in groups, to different degrees. Individuals in a society and cells in an organism are also analogous. So while you're right to call them acting like cells in organism, I'm uncertain what "than individual animals" would mean.

Ant queens mate only once in their lifetime and can live for 20+ years. All the individual ants born in a colony in that time are from the same genetic material.
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