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Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

science.sciencemag.org

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Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#151

N95/FFP2 seem to be very effective. I wish the media and government would have spent more time in educating people in things like how N95 masks work and that it isn't like a coffee filter. Even thought the pores are larger than a virus the masks are statically charged causes smaller things to get trapped. Many people don't know this but probably had an interaction with static electricity sometime in school and would…

We immediately face this issue: You should not act on information, or even knowledge. You should act on WISDOM. Wisdom is hard to gain, and yet it proves itself time after time to be better than the other forms of truth. Education is not the key; That would be wisdom. I do admit that most of what they teach is falsehood, and it would be better if it were truth.It would be better of there were no education at all than…

You rock dude ignore these haters king

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#153
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed this is the money paragraph: "The effectiveness of masks, however, is still under debate. Compared to N95/FFP2 respirators which have very low particle penetration rates (around ~5%), surgical and similar masks exhibit higher and more variable penetration rates (around ~30-70%) (2, 3). Given the large number of particles emitted upon respiration and especially upon sneezing or coughing (4), the number of respi…

> On the other hand, "observational data show that regions or facilities with a higher percentage of the population wearing masks have better control of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) (7–9)." So how to explain these contrasting results and apparent inconsistencies? My hypothesis regarding surgical mask prevalence and how it correlates with better virus control: People who wear masks--however effective they m…

"Some people with swine flu travelled on a plane from New York to China, and many fellow passengers got infected. Some researchers looked at whether passengers who wore masks throughout the flight stayed healthier. The answer was very much yes. They were able to track down 9 people who got sick on the flight and 32 who didn’t. 0% of the sick passengers wore masks, compared to 47% of the healthy passengers. Another way to look at that is that 0% of mask-wearers got sick, but 35% of non-wearers did."

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-t...

At the beginning of the pandemic I was skeptical about the effectiveness of masks and this article is what convinced me that there is some benefit.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, "observational data show that regions or facilities with a higher percentage of the population wearing masks have better control of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) (7–9)." So how to explain these contrasting results and apparent inconsistencies? My hypothesis regarding surgical mask prevalence and how it correlates with better virus control: People who wear masks--however effective they m…

It’s worth also considering the case of ski helmets. Since these have became common on the slopes head trauma has actually increased because wearers take more risks.

Probably related to the uptake in snow boarding.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#155
post #75

This entire study seems to be centered around a theoretical, mathematical model, and I didn't see any attempt to actually validate that model. Basically, the authors seem to assume that the virus behaves according to their formulas, and show that under their assumptions, face masks work, but don't actually prove that their assumptions match reality - or did I miss something?

Indeed this is the money paragraph: "The effectiveness of masks, however, is still under debate. Compared to N95/FFP2 respirators which have very low particle penetration rates (around ~5%), surgical and similar masks exhibit higher and more variable penetration rates (around ~30-70%) (2, 3). Given the large number of particles emitted upon respiration and especially upon sneezing or coughing (4), the number of respi…

> observational data show that regions or facilities with a higher percentage of the population wearing masks have better control of the coronavirus disease

Which is also not entirely true. There are quite a lot of regions (data from worldometer, statista) that have a better control of the virus despite people not giving a crap about face masks. For instance, Florida has 1600 deaths/M vs 3000 deaths/M in New Jersey. What'd be the explanation?

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#156
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed this is the money paragraph: "The effectiveness of masks, however, is still under debate. Compared to N95/FFP2 respirators which have very low particle penetration rates (around ~5%), surgical and similar masks exhibit higher and more variable penetration rates (around ~30-70%) (2, 3). Given the large number of particles emitted upon respiration and especially upon sneezing or coughing (4), the number of respi…

I really don’t get why this is still considered a conundrum Lots of places have R hovering around 1. If it goes to 1.1 everything goes to shit, if it drops to 0.9. Everything will be fine. So even if masks reduce spread by a tiny amount, even 10% better. That could easily swing you below 1 and save the day.

10% would not be tiny, that would be a statistically huge percentage based on population counts.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#157

This isn't a study; it is a mathematical model [1]. > Here, we develop a quantitative model of airborne virus exposure that can explain these contrasting results and provide a basis for quantifying the efficacy of face masks. We show that mask efficacy strongly depends on airborne virus abundance. Based on direct measurements of SARS-CoV-2 in air samples and population-level infection probabilities, we find that the…

> Meanwhile, they ignore the dozens of studies showing masks are ineffective, or even counterproductive

Let's try to figure out how well your summary is actually supported by your citations, especially as TFA is about medical masks and N95 masks and doesn't mention cloth masks.

TL;DR: It's not (and ignores the multiple studies showing surgical and N95 masks are effective to prevent SARS-CoV infections).

What your citations say is "cloth masks seem ineffective (but not surgical/N95), masks in general seem to protect less from influenza than coronaviruses, and wearing a mask may have some effect on exercise (although magnitude of the effect and consequences are unclear)". I wouldn't have had a problem with that statement. Whether that's the whole story or cherry-picking of studies is another question.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

(2015) Shows that cloth masks are less effective than medical masks... and incidentally that medical masks are effective. One study in, already contradicts your statement.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29395560/

(2017) Not about mask efficacy in disease prevention, but effects on exercise. No difference in distance, heart rate, O2 saturation, but 20% higher shortness of breath.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32590322/

(2020) Not about mask efficacy in disease prevention, but effects on exercise again. Also, not an experimental study but a comment/hypothesis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15340662/

(2004) Not about mask efficacy in disease prevention, again. Study on patients with end-stage renal disease.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26579222/

(2015) Not about mask efficacy in disease prevention, again. Study on pregnant women.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31159777/

(2019) First interesting one. Show that viruses may deposit on the outer surface of medical masks. May prove useful in educating people to handle with care (although it seems that contamination by touching contaminated surfaces accounts for a negligible amount).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779801/

(2012) Ah, better. Review of a small number of other studies, focused on influenza and close contact with an infected patient. Does not conclude masks are ineffective, but more that good data and studies are hard to come by, that the studies they reviewed were between inconclusive and positive, and they may be protective when combined with other hygiene practices. Also notes that the studies on SARS coronavirus transmission found masks protective, but the results may or may not apply for influenza. It also notes compliance and correct usage are likely factors in reduced effectiveness.

So, while this is the closest so far to your assertion, it doesn't quite support it either. Annex 5 in particular shows that the SARS coronavirus studies reviewed seem to show a protective effect.

Much larger and wider reviews, that include this one, reach different conclusions for the topic at hand. See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084286/ and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7718106/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/

(2008) Lol. Study on 32 health-care workers, and the incidence of common cold. There was 1 cold in each group. Sample way too small to reach any conclusion, as they themselves conclude.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

Same article as the first one in the list.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2493952/pdf/ann...

(1981) Interesting, although a small trial study. But it only cares about a very specific thing: the efficiency of masks in surgery to avoid contaminating an open wound, unrelated to the airborne spread of respiratory diseases. More studies and reviews have followed, with mitigated results, see for example https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33039336/

Interesting but irrelevant for the topic at hand.

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25776/rapid-expert-consultation-...

(2020) Expert consultation, limited to the effectiveness of homemade fabric masks. It says verbatim: "It does not apply to either N95 respirators or medical masks." (and it doesn't even conclude that homemade cloth masks are ineffective, only that more research is required).

https://www.nap.edu/read/25776/chapter/1#6

That's the same as the article just above. Could be the 2nd honest error of course, or could be a sign you've copy/pasted part or all of the list with little editing/proofreading.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

(2020) Review of multiple measures against influenza contamination, that seems to show no effectiveness. The authors point out themselves the limitations of the study however, small sample size and compliance issues. It's an interesting data point, but it targets influenza and I wouldn't say it disproves masks effectiveness.

When looking at the bigger picture, and more and larger review, doesn't yield the same conclusions. See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7718106/ that includes this study among those reviewed. Interestingly, it seems to show much more conclusive results for coronavirus infection prevention than influenza, and cautions against cloth masks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599448/

(2019) Physical study of filtering efficiency of cloth masks vs surgical masks, especially after washing

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

(2020) One of many physical studies on patients coughing in a petri dish with various mask types. Only 4 patients, and one of the only such physical studies I've seen that didn't show a significant effect.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

(2020) Another one that talks about exercise and not infection.

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Looking in general at country-level data, using masks earlier seems to be significantly associated with lower mortality. See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7695060/ for a wide study and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7392429/ for a small comment

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#158
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even though the Chinese were very clear about it from very early on" I'm not sure this adds as much credibility as you seem to think. See (for example) - propaganda videos of people dropping dead in the street in Wuhan in early 2020.

Not sure what you're getting at. Preprint for this paper was out in Apr 2020: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32240078/

Chinese health authorities not being a credible source of information throughout the pandemic?

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#159

This entire study seems to be centered around a theoretical, mathematical model, and I didn't see any attempt to actually validate that model. Basically, the authors seem to assume that the virus behaves according to their formulas, and show that under their assumptions, face masks work, but don't actually prove that their assumptions match reality - or did I miss something?

interesting; the same kind of erroneous supposition modeling MO is used to pretend that humans are "cooking the planet" (or is it an ice age? I guess it depends on the decade...).

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect mask wearing increases social distancing. That would explain much of the data but satisfy neither political party.

I'm not sure about that honestly. At the extreme there's definitely COVID deniers who followed no precautions, but IME most "normal" people I know felt more comfortable spending time indoors with masks than they would have otherwise. And 6 feet is really not enough spacing in many indoor environments. With things like elevators the other person could be gone and you could still be exposing yourself. There is also pre…

> Staff seem to get infected less frequently than other diners, even though they are in the space for longer. There are a few possible explanations, but the fact that staff don't take their masks off is a pretty compelling one.

IMO that’s the least compelling reason. One big one would be the staff having way more contacts and thus higher exposure to the other circulating hCoVs as well as SARS-2 itself.

The evidence for face masks is weak at best. In my opinion they don’t even make sense theoretically unless you pretend that droplet transmission is the dominant transmission mode, which is completely unproven yet widely believed dogma (go figure)

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