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Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

blog.scaleway.com

151–160 of 188 posts

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#151
post #33

Some people think Chia is so much better because of it uses SSD / Storage rather than GPU. I think this could be far worse. Not everyone needs a GPGPU, but everyone need NAND and SSD. And it already causes price hike for SSD we will soon see something similar to chip shortage. The DRAM Fab which could be quickly retooled to NAND will be part of this equation as well. This is not good.

And you didn't even touched on the e-waste issue.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#152
post #111
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - that’s pretty much how it works. If you own and can defend a jurisdiction where you can do that, other people will likely pay or trade things with you to stop.

A cheaper way to deal with you is to embargo/tariff your exports, until you come back to the negotiating table, hat in hand.

Not sure that always works.

Hang on, Fidel Castro is on the other line.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#153
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, newer consumer level SSDs are designed to have a lower TBW (TeraBytes Written) - mostly because any reasonable consumer doesn't write terabytes of data to their SSDs in any decent length of time. Enterprise/Higher end "GaMeR" SSDs have higher TBW ratings - I believe 1TB FireCuda Model NVMe SSDs have something insane like a 1800 TBW rating when I was looking a couple weeks back. These above men…

What is the expansion of the acronym “GaMeR”? I’ve not seen it before and I want to be sure I understand.

I think he's making fun of the over the top gamer branding some technology products have.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how chia rewards you though. It's a lottery, and though chia may be around 1000 or so right now it could massively increase in the future. Current projections are something like 3-4 months to get a single reward. But if you could make potentially an extra 50K a year with some harddrives that's not a bad deal.

BitCoin mining is also a lottery. I could stumble on a good hash using my own CPU. But the odds are in favour of the farms with ASICs.

btc can only be mined on asics

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#155
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chia isn't worth farming anymore. I have a pile of old spare 512GB SSDs and it looks like I would able to make something like $2/day. Not even enough for a coffee. Same with Ethereum. Tried to mine with my Titan V. 31 MH/s. Also not even enough for a coffee. This is meaningless, and cryptocurrencies are effectively centralized around mining farms with ASICs.

I bought a 512GB SSD for around 60€ some time ago. Let's be generous and assume 40 days pay back. It could be 90 days and it still would be worth it. I don't know how fast SSD wear out when used for Chia though, it could be unprofitable for all I know.

I'm 90% sure as of this week you can get more money by selling the SSD than farming Chia on it before Chia wears it out.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current projections are something like 3-4 months to get a single reward You cant project time to win without knowing how many plots a farmer has. You've gotta have 100+ TB plotted (prolly closer to 140actually) at this point to have a chance at winning every 3-4 months. A single plot would put you closer to 7 years.

That's just not accurate. See https://chiacalculator.com/ for more. 3-4 months is currently around 18 TB. EDIT: 100 TB would get a coin every ~ 18 days on average.

> 3-4 months is currently around 18 TB.

That number does't account for how many more Chia farmers will exist in 1,2,3 months. It doesn't even account for linear extrapolation of total plots in the world, let alone exponential.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#157
post #55

> Chia plotting is extremely I/O intensive and destroys most SSDs in under a few weeks I need to look into this more, but I think this is an implementation issue. It should buffer in RAM to require only one write pass. Edit: I was wrong. They set a minimum k that wouldn’t easily fit in ram.

Any idea why the minimum plot size needs to be so damn huge? Really killed the attractiveness of the whole scheme for me

If the plot were smaller there's the risk that someone could calculate plots "on the fly" within the 30-second claim window, thus reducing Chia to proof-of-work (or even breaking it entirely? the "green" paper [1] is a bit too dense for me). It's expected and planned that k will have to increase to 33 in a few years to stay ahead.

[1]: https://www.chia.net/assets/ChiaGreenPaper.pdf

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plots are each unique, and are too large (hundreds of GB) to represent as a ROM.

if you can build an SSD that's hundreds of GB you can certainly build a ROM...

Flash memory is uniform. Every flash memory die is (hopefully) identical to the next one. Once you know how to produce a flash memory die of a given size, you can produce a million of them, and that's worth a million times more.

Chia plots are unique. Producing two copies of one isn't just pointless, but undesirable; it means that someone else might get a copy and reap the rewards instead of the person who plotted it.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#159
post #38

Somebody needs to invent a coin that works on proof-of-carbon-emission-reductions, or proof-of-global-poverty-reduction and do some real good for the world.

That’s actually pretty simple if you can live with centralization ... just certify CO2 offsets for example for each coin purchased. Then again ... what’s the point of putting that on a blockchain?

I found a coin claiming to do this - tradeable carbon credits, where you could extinguish a coin to offset carbon. It seemed like it had no traction.

You could make carbon-neutral coin that automatically offsets its own emissions by buying and extinguishing carbon offsets for every transaction. Obviously this would be cost-prohibitive for Bitcoin, but seems practical for less energy-intensive cryptos. I’m surprised nobody has done this (at least, I didn’t find it by googling). I think you could make billions of dollars off this because of the current furor over environment impact of cryptos. And it would actually be good for the world.

Re: Scaleway announces measures against abusive Chia plotting and farming

#160
post #78
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set up a coin such that every time it goes up, some amount of reserve is sold, and 100% of profits donated to carbon reduction projects. Give away free electric cars. Plant trees. Whatever. Then hype up the coin. Make people bid it up endlessly just like they do other coins. Post lots of #moon #hodl crap on Twitter. Get the flock of sheep moving. Sell hype, use the proceeds for CO2 reduction.

According to Bitcoiners Bitcoin is green, so you you could use the proceeds to buy Bitcoin. https://bitcoinisgreen.org/

    "THE BITCOIN NETWORK FUNCTIONS AS A UNIQUE ENERGY BUYER THAT COULD ENABLE SOCIETY TO DEPLOY SUBSTANTIALLY MORE SOLAR AND WIND GENERATION CAPACITY. THIS DEPLOYMENT, ALONG WITH ENERGY STORAGE, AIMS TO FACILITATE THE TRANSITION TO A CLEANER AND MORE RESILIENT ELECTRICITY GRID.”
I used to get paid to write stuff like this.
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