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How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

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Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#81

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

hyperman1 wrote: post #64
hrktb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious what about Mailchimp make them illegal to use ? On the face of it they seem to have support for the required stuff: https://mailchimp.com/gdpr/

I was also curious, so I found this: https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2021/bavarian-dpa-... The core: ... transfers of personal data to the U.S.- were not lawful. So the problem is that an US company cannot be GDPR compliant, because that conflicts with US law. Which sucks for mailchimp but makes sense.

> So the problem is that an US company cannot be GDPR compliant, because that conflicts with US law.

This is completely not true. First, most US companies are GDPR-compliant because they don't gather, store and process personal data of EU citizens. Now, those that do - mainly Internet companies - they need to abide by the terms of the GDPR (or not to serve EU customers, which for some is the easiest way - like New York Daily News). If you decide to store personal data of EU citizens, you need to do it using servers located in the EU, which, depending on the nature of your business, might or might not be easy, but companies had several years to prepare for that. There is no any conflict with US law anywhere.

Personally I was in a similar position and instead of choosing Mailchimp I choose Mailerlite, which is Europe-based and, being less popular than Mailchimp, (much) less expensive for the customers I have (with mailing lists in the range of 5k-50k contacts). It has its quirks but it works and I have no much reasons to complain.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#82

Post by hrktb »

kjakm wrote: post #72
hyperman1 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also curious, so I found this: https://edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2021/bavarian-dpa-... The core: ... transfers of personal data to the U.S.- were not lawful. So the problem is that an US company cannot be GDPR compliant, because that conflicts with US law. Which sucks for mailchimp but makes sense.

A US company can be compliant. They just have to host EU user data in the EU.

Judging from this

> Mailchimp may in principle be subject to data access by US intelligence services on the basis of the US legal provision FISA702 (50 U.S.C. § 1881)

It might not be just a matter of where the data is stored, but also who can get access to it. From my reading, any US based conpany would be affected.

This feels like a super huge impact that would have made more waves, but the ruling also seems recent. And perhaps there will be more twists and turns yet ?

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#83

Post by sys_64738 »

Arathorn wrote: post #80
sys_64738 wrote: post #79

Is the Matrix based in the UK? I guess I don't follow why this UK specific law matters to anybody outside that country. I mean, if the Matrix is in the EU then is a UK law really relevant? If your website is not based in the UK then it's not your problem unless I'm missing something. Even if the reach of the UK was beyond its shores then the fallback is to simply ban that country's IP addresses. Sucks to be from that…

Yes, the Matrix.org Foundation is a UK non-profit. It leans heavily on Element, the company which set up by the original Matrix team to fund Matrix, which is a UK for-profit. So if the UK govt starts incarcerating the team who created Matrix because they provide Matrix hosting, this is bad news for Matrix.

Yes that totally is terrible for them then. Hope this all falls apart for Boris.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#84

Post by maxrev17 »

nfoz wrote: post #9
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common CMSs send cookies by default. Even if you are one of those tech-inclined people using a static site generator for your own website, this is not the case for millions and millions of other websites.

Then let's replace those CMS's. [edited with less anger]

Replace them? You need cookies for a tonne of reasons. It's really difficult to justify replacing half the web because some people abuse it. That's like replacing cars with walking because some people drink drive.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#85

Post by fragileone »

cyrksoft wrote: post #60
t-writescode wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cameras tracking everything everywhere in UK would say that it's long been an authoritarian country. Authoritarianism is a sliding scale. From what I can gather, lots of humans that have any political pull at all tend to be authoritarian (against the kinds of people they don't like, of course).

Most cameras in the UK (I think around 95% even) are private. Not sure why you think the UK is an authoritarian regime. Check any ranking and it is one of the freest countries out there (Heritage Ranking, for example: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking )

Yet the UK has the Snooper's Charter, GCHQ and mass content policing. This is new bill is an extension of their control apparatus, not an exceptionally unique case.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#86

Post by [deleted] »

maxrev17 wrote: post #84
nfoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let's replace those CMS's. [edited with less anger]

Replace them? You need cookies for a tonne of reasons. It's really difficult to justify replacing half the web because some people abuse it. That's like replacing cars with walking because some people drink drive.

[deleted]

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#87

Post by [deleted] »

teclordphrack2 wrote: post #16
______- wrote: post #8

I wish there was some sort of island or safe haven country setup by cryptographers so they could safely work on crypto without legal issues or crypto being seen as a munition and a threat to government. We could call it `01` and have it in a non fourteen-eyes jurisdiction preferably as an independent nation. We could export code containing cryptographic algorithms to countries that need it for privacy and safety reas…

We can't have communist countries in latan america because of the good ole u s of a. You think you are going to get some slight utopia that helps people b/c of their ideals? Never going to happen... sadly.

[deleted]

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#88

Post by throwaway3699 »

gambiting wrote: post #77
varispeed wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you have someone directly sentenced for not disclosing their password: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-45365464

I mean, we can be doing this back and forth for a while, but again, to quote from the article: "Judge Christopher Parker did not accept Nicholson's "wholly inadequate" excuse that providing his password would expose information relating to cannabis." So basically he said "I know the password, but I'm not going to tell you". That's obstructing justice. My point is if you say you don't remember and maintain saying you…

This is the reason America's 5th amendment exists, people have the ability to not self-incriminate because it gives way for a different form of obstruction of justice, compelling people to speak under duress mainly.

I've long wished most of the American constitution made it's way over to Britain. We've had many of the freedoms enshrined in it for centuries but a few, particularly the principle of freedom of speech, has been trampled over in the internet age.

Re: How the UK's online safety bill threatens Matrix

#89

Post by throwaway3699 »

sys_64738 wrote: post #79

Is the Matrix based in the UK? I guess I don't follow why this UK specific law matters to anybody outside that country. I mean, if the Matrix is in the EU then is a UK law really relevant? If your website is not based in the UK then it's not your problem unless I'm missing something. Even if the reach of the UK was beyond its shores then the fallback is to simply ban that country's IP addresses. Sucks to be from that…

What the US, UK, EU, Australia, Canada, etc... do have implications for the whole world. These countries all communicate and align on surveillance policy.
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